Not even close. It really was only 2-3 times total. Now, go along and make up some more lies. It's about the only thing you do well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
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Not even close. It really was only 2-3 times total. Now, go along and make up some more lies. It's about the only thing you do well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Lies, lies and more lies. As for his being smart and witty we all know that's only in his own mind. The real Singer is just a projecting machine. When you see comments like this you know he's really telling you about his own life. Once you understand that it all makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Hello all.This is my first post to this forum or any other one as a matter of fact.I have followed this forum from its beginning.It is my opinion that the childish insults passed between Mr Singer and Mr arcimede$ are totally non-productive and are of benefit no one.I believe that both these gentleman are successful in their methods.I also believe that many others who do not post here are concerned about getting caught up in all of in fighting.I would like to discuss what I know and what I would like to know about vp with these two experts as well as others.I have read all of vptruth.com articles and have Mr Singer's 5 methods printed out.I am putting together a 10k bankroll to play SPS.By the way you can access Mr Singer's site by using The Internet Waybach Machine
Not sure what denominations you plan on using but $10K is not a very big bankroll. It is probably sufficient for starting at the nickel level and possible dimes. Not much higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
For example, consider a .25/.50/1/2/5 progression with a $625 goal. That would be $100/$200/$400/$800/$2000 or a total of $3500 a session. That would get you through 3 losses but not much further. I've had losing streaks much worse than that. Naturally, if you find some better games to play your chances of surviving longer are much better.
I will be using .05/.10/.25/.50/2.00/5.00;$20,$40,$100,$200,$800,$2000 ($3160) with a session goal of $150.00.I live in Long Island N.Y.but own a townhouse in Shawnee PA. and play usually on a weekend basis at Mt. Airy Lodge and Casino in Mt. Pocono,PA.They have only 2 multi-play multi-denomination machines that have ten cent play.These machines have BP, DBP and DDBP.
Did you leave out the $1 denomination on purpose? If so, please explain. Thanks.
And the $10.:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Please explain this further. I have read and reread all his posts and I don't get this and have never seen anything remotely similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
Projection? :) My wife can walk to the bathroom....Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
So can mine, but that's not the point. You know you have treated your wife poorly over the years so you project the same behavior in others. You're easily to read than a grade school fairy tale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
I though that in the event of bad results on lower levels, recovery would be faster at $2 as quad 2,3,4 would be $400 on BP and allow me to return to .05 BPQuote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
$10 is a little to high for my comfort level.Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot
That shook you into another lie arci :) "You're EASILY to read"?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
You mean the walker gets the nod over the wheelchair when it's time to go? And what's the procedure after you sneak out to the Indian casino to get your video poker fix? Betcha don't even care.
Not a problem. You've substituted 5 levels (instead of six) with a 4:1 final level ratio (instead of the std. 2:1). That gives you an 18% BETTER chance of attaining a smaller win goal (your stated $150 vs. the std. 2500X your lowest denomination).Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
Actually I will go the the 6th level which is $5.00 ,2.5x the 5th level.This is your like your 6th level $100.00 which is 4x your 5th level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
I was taught this at a very young age: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." This can be applied to the use of profane language all the way down to merely insulting someone. Restraint is not that difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
By virtue of just this part of your post, it's clear that you are most observant. Welcome to the forum.
Rob, I don't know if what you say is true but even if it were, you have no business getting involved in someone's personal life or commenting on one's personal life. It's not your business and it certainly is no one else's business and it is not appropriate for public discussion here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
I wouldn't want you to comment about how I cheated on my diabetic diet over the years and that led to my kidney failure. If this were a site about diabetes management -- that would be appropriate. But this is a forum about Las Vegas and it certainly not a forum for you to constantly attack Arc.
Frankly, Rob, none of us know what's true and what isn't except for you and Arc... and the rest of us don't care either. We're more concerned about discussing your play and your strategy, and Arc's responses to your play and strategy. That discussion is worthwhile.
Thank you for joining us on the Forum. You and I have exchanged private emails about the Forum and I am glad you decided to publicly post. I also appreciate your comments that there are many others who follow the forum but are literally afraid to get involved in the heated debates. There seem to be as many pro-Singer as anti-Singer forum viewers who are reluctant to post.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
I really am curious to see if your experiment with Rob's system works. Frankly, I think you'd have a better chance of hitting a $625 win goal by just playing $5 8/5 or even 7/5 Bonus.
And if your win goal is only $150 why not just play $1 8/5 or 7/5 Bonus?
It is very unlikely that you will hit even a $125 win goal playing nickels, dimes. So I consider that to be "lost money." Why not start at a higher level and give yourself a chance of hitting something worthwhile?
Again, thanks for posting.
Then from what I understand antfanas, you're bankroll isn't adequate for that. Even arc (holy smokes!) has it wrong. The bankroll required is 3X 400 times each denomination being played. Maybe Rob can comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
If you go by the strict reasoning of 2500 times the lowest denomination played, which is what Singer's SPS does, then six similarly ratioed denominations will do the same thing, assuming the same paytables as he played. I'm getting all juiced up reading and writing this, and now I want to try this myself. I've got enough savings to play to the $10 level without concern. Maybe I'll give it a go too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Since I don't understand the SPS what does this mean: "If you go by the strict reasoning of 2500 times the lowest denomination played,..." What is this strict reasoning?? Thanks.
I mostly agree Alan, but arc asks for it in nearly every post. But you're 100% right in that none of us care about arc's wife, Singer's zingers, or any lies that could be told. But everyone wants to know more about Singer's play strategy. That's also where I see arc causing trouble because he's never been able to read it without having fits. Let's hope for the best this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
No, Singer has no idea what is true. He makes it up as he goes along. All he knows is my wife is on dialysis because I have mentioned it previously. It's his old game of asserting lies based on his own self-hatred for what he has done over the years in his own life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It's pretty easy to see why. He can't argue facts with me so he tries to change the subject to something else.
Singer starts at $1 level. 2500 times that equals $2500. That's his win goal in SPS. I believe that's a firm number as I've never seen anything other than that stated anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
One or two people is now "everyone". Bwah haha haha hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by jatki
Lie. Show one case where I have ever "had fits". Or, is that what you call providing mathematical facts?Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
I was taught the same and you are correct restraint is not difficult.Honey is better that vinegar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
Thanks for the welcome
I've seen your diatribe about this a dozen times. Singer's the one who comes on with the facts about his strategy and it pisses you off, so you whip up a thousand lies about him and the way he plays it. I don't care about your wife, what you did to cause her harm if anything, or your own worthless way of playing in my mind. I do care about SPS and what it can do. You're constant valueless rants and lies about Singer's life is so seen through with ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
Singer was right, you're all sour grapes.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
Where've you had a fit? Try right here! You're so overcome by the guy you don't even see it when you do it.
STOP STOP STOP
No more discussing Singer vs Arc or Arc vs Singer.
STOP STOP STOP
I see you didn't provide a single example to support your last lie. You won't provide any with this lie either. One can only wonder why you choose to come here and tell one lie after another.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
You hit the nail on the head.That is exactly why I started posting here.I am interested in their play and not the venom.If they can co-exist we can all benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Sorry, your own anger at me for showing you haven't a single fact to back up your silly assertions has gotten you scrambling around telling one lie after another. Clearly, you are the one that has lost it. Absolutely hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
PLEASE STOP. No more Arc vs Singer and Singer vs Arc.
No more. No more attacks, period.
Yeah, and pretty clear that I'm not too observant. I just saw the semi-colon separating the denoms from the amounts. LOL.:eek::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4Gj7JsET4Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Good one Vic! I used that on arci five years ago, and all it does is enrage him even further!
Thank you Allan for the welcome.I have now lowered my session win goal to $125 which is 2500x.05 my lowest denomination as Mr Singer suggests .Alan I don't care whose system/method is the best as long as I leave the casino with more $ than I came in with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I am not an expert on SPS and have questions for Mr Singer.You win your goal in increments or possibly on one hand for instance a .05 RF for $200.00. The more hands you play at lower levels and lose money,the greater the chance that you will hit a large hand at higher levels.For example I played through .05/.10/.25 BP and DDBP
and had no 40 credit cash outs so I was behind $160($20/$40/$100). I began the next level playing .50 BP and won 220 credits($110) soft profit.This could not get me back to the .25BP level as I needed to win $120 or 240 credits.I was $10 short.I continued to play .50 BP and lost the 100 credits.I then stated to play 300 credits on a game called double crown poker which pays 800 for 4A and 600 for quad K,Q,J. I was down 100 credits and then hit 4A.Total win was $400-$50-$50+$110-$160=$250 Profit.You must have a plan and stick to it.
Not if the games are random. The chances are the same on every single hand. They do not get better because of previous losses. This is not uncommon thinking among those who do not understand randomness. However, it is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
Do you believe that if you flip a coin 5 times and get heads that the odds of a tail on the next flip have increased? If you do, what physical mechanism changes the flight of the coin to increase the odds of a tail? If you don't, then why would you believe another random game is any different?
I paid for and read a tell-all book from a former slot/poker machine manager.He states that when a series of winning results occur when players first begin playing it has the desired effect of "hooking" the player into believing the machine is "friendly" and on the verge of bigger and better things.How many players would walk away from a winning series of results when they first begin playing.Most players will stay at a machine that gives them something right away.The casinos knows this and adjust the programming of their machines to fit this behavior.These programs are called "builds" which he states he was present for as these programs were upgraded or changed.Are they completely random????Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
The machine doesn't know and doesn't care how you have been playing. If this is indeed your thinking and your approach, you really shouldn't be playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
The only person who wins anything with these "tell all" books is the author who suckered you into buying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.Thanks for the adviceQuote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
Do you have any for sale?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
Now we're getting somewhere.
Vic, I KNOW vp machines at least in Nv. are not random, and I've never even considered not playing them because of that. The fact I found out was, that even after several billion hands run into the test equipment, it couldn't be determined whether being slightly non-random helps or hurts the player.
More than just one man's opinion. The chances of hitting at any level are the same. Past results are no indication of future results. In hindsight, you can say "look what happened", but to turn it around and say "look what's going to happen" is foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
How much more money are you willing to waste?Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
I KNOW they are random.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
I'm going to say I don't know that the machines are random. I certainly hope they are random -- as advertised. But I would certainly welcome someone's proof that they are not random. And until I can see proof that they are not random, I'm just going to have to believe that they are random.
If you believe the machines are not random -- then follow your beliefs. It's your money.
Of course this is against the regulations in every state and there's absolutely no logic for the machine manufacturers to make machines like this. What's in it for them?Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
However, even if you assume this was true it would work against a system like SPS. The only thing that would take advantage is to have small win goals and get off the machine as soon as you hit them. Naturally, you should be able to move to another machine and do the same thing again. In fact, you should be able to do this over and over again just by moving from one machine to another.
You should be able to test this theory yourself instead of relying on someone who probably doesn't have a clue.
That is interesting and explains an interesting phenomenon I observed on "off days"at casinos and was one of the criteria I used in just playing 20 hands bp/ddbp each (100 credits) instead of the regular strategy. Also, using this on aart led to $10-15 wins in sometimes 3-4 hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
There's a big difference Vic. You're relying on what the casino industry and local government agencies tells you, as are the advantage play crowd. You have no facts. I do, in support of what I say, and if Alan wanted to come with me last year to see the reports and if he had put his findings up here, all we'd be arguing about is arci's predictable new claims of how I had all the computerized test equipment summaries made up for this specific and elaborate scam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
Alan, those are very smart and valid statements...ones which I always made for the years before I tested the machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
And that's EXACTLY how the strategy was designed to work & has worked for me on such a consistent basis, and will work for anyone who applies it as it's supposed to be played. And it will produce even more winning sessions once you understand where and when to use the special plays I've developed that INCREASE session ER. It is a mathematical concept that will always drive unknowledgeable players crazy until the day comes where they really want to understand it instead of just sitting there like foolish know-it-alls claiming it's hogwash, ie, taking the easy way out.Quote:
Originally Posted by antfanas
You have no facts. If you did you would provide them. All you do is make claims you can't back up. Better known as lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Arci, would YOU like to commit to going with me to Az. sometime this winter to collect everything that will make you look like an even bigger liar--if that's even possible? Oh wait....you're latest escape route has you being stuck, unable to do anything or go anywhere. But let me know when you're freed up please.
I'll go if it's at a convenient time. I wouldn't be capable of reviewing them because I have no math background, but I'd be able to repeat what I saw and we can maybe bring some of it back?
Arc, like has been said a dozen or more times, no one makes more ridiculous claims on here or anywhere else without the slightest bit of backup for them, than you. And you say you only use facts?
Backup your winning claims, backup again how Singer made me use his card in training, backup your claims that he lost that inheritance you keep spouting off about on the forums, backup anything. What you can't? What's that say about you?
It's not up to Alan to supply such documentation. You are the individual making the assertion. If one is to believe that you have such material merely because you say so, then it's equally believable that I have the facts to sustain what I say. After all, everything on the internet is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Rob, even if your one machine that you tested proved to not have been valid, there is no way that your single machine test could be used either in a court of law, or by the media to challenge the video poker industry. One sample machine, one test done in your garage, is not sufficient proof. You would only have the proof of one machine.
This is why I suggested that an independent third party such as Consumers Union (Consumer Reports Magazine) or the Federal Trade Commission or the Attorney General or someone other than "Rob Singer, video poker author and expert player" conduct their own test on multiple machines in laboratory conditions.
You might have absolute proof, but the fact that it comes from one machine, tested at home, will not convince anyone. You might "have something" but at this point it is not evidence that anyone could use to "start the ball rolling."
By the way, I did send a message to Consumers Union suggesting an investigation into this and I did not get a response.
If you want to have credibility it is up to you to provide the data that supports your claims. YOUR CLAIMS ... not anyone else. It has nothing to do with me. By not providing it you are admitting it doesn't exist (which I already knew).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
You're misreading this Vic. I never asked Alan to supply my documentation. I simply explained what I did to prove out a belief to myself, Alan asked to see that proof because he sensibly can't really believe machines aren't random without some kind of proof, and I said I'd bring him to the documentation. That way there could be no 3rd party stupid claims that I just created the paperwork in the last two weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
You also missed where it was never my intention to do anything but present my findings to the NGC upon proving it out to myself, but I repidly discovered they wanted no part of it. To me, that is a tell-all of tell-alls. But I also found out that whenever I mentioned this effort on my site or afterwards, on forums, certain disbelievers couldnt't let it go and wanted to see.more....until it got too close to really happening, that is. Then, just as with the revenue-protecting Gaming Commission, the doors shut just as quickly as they opened.
BTW, I've said where I got my facts to sustain my "assertion"; where'd you get yours? On the Internet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Again Alan, the exercise with the machine was done only to prove it out to myself. Please read my reply to Vic. I was never interested in trying to convince the world about my discovery. There's quite a few players in vp that trust what I say because they understand I've been telling them the truth about my strategy and advantage play for many years. That's good enough. No governmental agency, casino manager, or machine manufacturer would ever be interested in seeing any of this or having the vp community see it, because it's bad news for business. That's my reading after the NGC snub. I do, however, agree with your assessment that the fact that there's one machine out there that tests out as such, does not mean they're all like that and it wouldnt't mean a whole lot overall. I do prefer to believe they're all less than 100% random.
I agreed to allow Singer to see my tax returns. He backed out. Any time you want to stop by and see my tax returns feel free. There's nothing else I could ever do to prove I have won. Besides, I really don't care if you believe me. You are a nobody.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
He admitted it on either LVA or VP.com. Albeit he claimed to do it only once. BTW, it's not my claim. It was made by someone who was trained by Singer and who stated that Singer insisted on using his card. When I repeated it Singer admitted it. So, it's no longer in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
Singer admitted he had an inheritance over on freevpfree (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2633) and it's public record that he later filed for bankruptcy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
Like I've said many times ... all I do is provide the facts.
Rob. please let me know if I can go with you to see your videopoker machine test results or whatever it is you have. I offered to do this earlier and there's been no response.
Arc, I've been around on LV A and videopoker.com, and those "facts" you claim aren't even close to what Singer did or said. That inheritance you just talked about had nothing to do with what he told everyone he lost as an advantage player. It was used to help build his new bankroll to play his SPS. That bankruptcy info that was on his site before I read it on any forum, was before he began his SPS. See what I mean about you?
Lets see, by a raise of hands, how many people here or anywhere else in the USA would show their tax returns to someone they don't know. Besides, what's that have to do with you backing down, twice, from Singer trying to show you his math used on his SPS? See what I mean about you?
Oh sure, that slot club card scam you claim I was a victim to under Singer's training. Still waiting for proof on that. I saw what you're referring to on videopoker.com, who couldn't remember it after you lied about it umpteen times there and on LV A? The claim was by that freak poster that also hated Singer, and you believe him. Fits. Singer also posted somewhere on LV A that he did use his card one time during training, and it was because they met at a casino where the student didn't have a card and didn't want to get one. See what I mean about you?
How about you really stick with the facts from now on arc, and maybe you can join myself and him in Az. as we review his paperwork. Is that too much to ask?
I didn't realize my life was so memorable....
Arci's not gonna appreciate you jatki. Right in the actual thread he provided from vpFree, it explains when my inheritance came into play. The only way to explain how arci described it is by understanding that he can't keep his lies straight. :)
I enjoy the pressure you put on him about how I supposedly scammed you and others into requiring that you all use my slot card during training. So funny....
Yes, I welcome you if you'd like to ride to Az. with me this winter. If this will do any good for Alan then I'll fire up my motivation again. Where do you live, and is it near LV?
I tested a machine here at my house. What? You don't believe me? Is there some doubt in your mind? How can that possibly be? If I said I did it, then I did it. What's that? You want proof? How dare you take me to task on such a trivial matter as proving my claim. You should trust my word without reservation, just as you expect everyone else to take your word on face value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Can't you read. He got his inheritance in 1991. His own words (albeit under one of his aliases that he claims he never uses). That was when he was still an APer. His bankruptcy was in the late 90s and he hadn't started his SPS (if you believe his claims of winning almost a million in 10 years). You really are a tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
I never backed down from a meeting with Singer. Ask him for proof like you do with me. Singer is lying and now you are repeating his lies. That is why you are nothing but a tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
Lie. I never said you were a victim. So, chalk up another lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
Yup, he admitted it just like I said. Now, consider the other evidence. He claimed a couple of years ago that he received $1500 in freeplay for one month. He also claimed he only played 25 hours the previous year. Let's see if you can come up with some math that supports those two claims. Either he is lying about the amount he played or he must have gotten credit for hours and hours of play by some other method. Figure it out, tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatki
That's what panic looks like as it sets in on a pathological liar. :)
Looking in the mirror again? I suspect you are starting to get very nervous as I back up my claims every time. We're still waiting for all that math ... shouldn't you be working on getting it posted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Arc you're such a silly man. Aliases hearsay, tools, digging into other forums looking for things to twist and turn, and SINGER'S nervous? Where's those smiley faces? I need them for every time arc claims to have backed something else up in invisible ink.
Rob, I saw you asked where I live. I'm in Furnace Creek, California, and yes it is very very hot here. My daughter lives and works here and after her divorce she needed some company for a while. Next year I'll be outta here! But anyway, I can meet you in LasVegas for the ride to Arizona if you'd like.
Jeezus....that post from VPFree was back in 2005. Has this war between Rob Singer and Arcimedes been going on for 7 years? That's longer than World War II isn't it? (1939-1945)
Jatki, we sure can work something out for the trip. Furnace Creek....THAT hot spot? Wow! And I always thought Phoenix was hot.
Yes Count, arci's always been jealous of and has had a subsequent hatred of me for the sensibility I've brought to the vp world. He just can't stand it that he's never been able to sell me his lies like he has to some others, and he definitely cannot take criticism. But he's really a great bargain when it comes to pound-for-pound fun!
Rob:
I'm going to stay strictly neutral with this one. It just wouldn't be worth the struggle for me, personally.
Not a problem for me because it's all entertainment. But watch out for arci....if you don't agree with him then he'll call you a liar and other names, and if you ever agree with anything about me, then you're one of my "aliases" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Room
winner winner winner !!!! Post of the week !!!!! winner winner winner !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by count room
About the private testing of the VP machine: it's all a moot point. Rob can't prove it because the first thing that would need to be presented in court would be the machine. Rob says the machine is now in some casino in North Vegas. The "chain of ownership" and "chain of control" has been broken. The RNG might have been changed after it left Rob's possession. In the unlikely event the RNG was not changed, go ahead and try to get the machine from the casino and present it as evidence.
Case dismissed.
OK, but the mathematical support for my strategy's development....could that be used for anything here? It's not something that can be posted as I said earlier, but does anyone want to see it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
We would love to see the mathematical support. Please post. And if you need special accommodations such as special pages created, I will do that.
Jatki, when you reply just hit "go advanced".:);):DQuote:
Originally Posted by jatki
There's one way to do it that I can think of: scanning all the pages. But it still probably wouldn't mean much unless I was there to explain all entries on every page, and it isn't what you'd call neat. Plus about a third of it is in German--something I told Frank but he said he speaks the language too. I'll keep thinking and I'm sure I'll figure out the best way to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Ahhh, the back down begins. Give me a break. Math is a highly structure formal language. Of course it can be posted ... if it existed. This is just the beginnings of what I stated would happen. Singer will never post any math because it does not exist and has never existed. I'd also like to know how the 3 foreign mathematicians he claims verified it were able to do it without it being written down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
This is about as funny as it gets.