Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
Originally Posted by jdog View Post
Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
people should not have to be vaccinated but there needs to be a system so that medical institution can just refuse to treat them after the fact.
One of them started droning on about masks and she was like ... just get me away from that dude.
I've somewhat avoided discussing Covid related issues for a long time but I have to point out a couple things here. If you're advocating refusing to treat someone when there was an FDA approved vaccine available that has a long history of providing immunity along with minimal side effects... ok maybe I guess.

But the Covid vax is not this, not by any stretch of the imagination. It is an experimental (still not FDA approved) drug therapy that has an extremely questionable safety record to say the least. But at worst it's possibly the most dangerous "vaccine" ever. Plus waning immunity after a few to several weeks because it's only formulated for certain strain(s). In fact two very close friends of mine were nearly killed by the second shot. One of them developed symptoms within days. Plus a couple others I know had their labs come back very messed up after... so my friend's primary care physician asked him if he got the booster, he had so the PCP told him "don't get anymore Covid shots". My uncle has a heart condition, his PCP recommended no Covid vax for him either. It's not like there aren't doctors out there who know the shots are causing problems.

As far as the masks, I found this questionable from the get go. Viruses are super tiny particles. So as early as March 2020 I was looking at mask studies on the CDC site. At that time I could only find one about cloth mask effectiveness against the flu and the result was masks were proved ineffective against an aerosolized particle that small.

Did the Covid vax keep a lot of people out of the hospitals with Covid?? Yes. Did it kill people that never made it to the hospital or later of other diseases? Also yes.
I understand many of us advocated for the vaccines because we were scared and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Hell I even got one shot. But it's time to take a big step back... just back away from it. Trust me.
If you don't think it is a vaccine then you must not believe the flu vaccine is a vaccine either, right?

My issue with the masks and all that is if everything went forward as normal the hospitals would have been overrun. Hospitalizing the extra people would have likely been a considerable burden - no doubt costs passed along to others in some way (and maybe not financially). The vaccine did help lower symptoms and thus the medical overload. I also feel we owe it to medical staff. We're already short doctors. We don't need some large part of them saying peace out from being burned out. The hospitals and/or doctors should have a right to just say no to patients.

I've known quite a few people being sick from side effects of vax but none approaching death. I do know of several people who died from covid. One was an anti-vaxxer and the family said it was a "reaction to the medicine" for why he couldn't breath. Unlikely. What is more likely is he caught covid. I know of other people who lost a lot of life after catching covid. Through friends of friends I know 5 people who died. Some were fairly young.

So I'm just in a middle ground giving people the most options. Real personal freedom. shrug. The vaccines did have more problems than people were hoping and I don't disagree they are problematic.

If some hospitals said no, then there will be free market options elsewhere.

Long covid is very much also a thing but the whole thing was politicized so many have little desire to have an objective discussion. It is now part of the tribal thinking. Indeed, the weirdo who droned on about vaccinations to my friend is a big time fake-news loving rightwinger. He prides himself in not listening to msm. He'd much rather exist solely in his silo feeling superior but in reality being dumb.
You need to catch up and read between the lines. The reason five states are currently suing Pfizer is because they are arguing that the mRNA Covid-19 shot is not a vaccine per se as set by historical and legal precedent. Their arguments hinge on the dual ineffectiveness of the mRNA Covid shots in (1) preventing infection and (2) preventing transmission. The bar for such things is relatively low since current flu vaccines have established roughly a 50% "prevents infection" status. The lawsuits suggest (strongly) that the mRNA Covid-19 shots are well below that threshold in preventing infection. What also suggests this is that Pfizer refuses to share any data on the subject with the public.

Well, the lawsuits will eventually put this information in the public domain. But it will take some time. The obvious implication is that if Pfizer had the data and it favored them, they would make public the data and there would be no lawsuits.

Here's a frightening thought, and I sound psychotic for mentioning it but I will. There is a possibility that, in terms of overall mortality (overall, not disease specific), the mRNA shots may have no value at all or may have a negative value.