KJ BJ expert?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Not sure what I am trying outside of pointing out something I believe.

Curious what the others think? I believe that redietz is very much an expert. Kewl is also a bj expert ... just not at the level of redietz.

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I am moving this to a new thread out of respect to redietz so as not to hijack his entertaining thread/claim. So are you looking to hear what other knowledgable BJ players (of which there are few here) think, or just the membership including the troll majority? :D

JBJB last posted here 12/30/23. He is missed by me, even though we didn't always agree. Hopefully he is well and just fulfilling a now 2 year New years resolution to no longer post here.

But in his absence, there are 4 members, other than myself that I would describe as Blackjack professional level players. Understand the word "level". That would be:

1) Zenking. He played blackjack for a living here in Vegas for at least 8-10 years. I understand he may now have moved on to other AP plays, maybe still playing some BJ, maybe not. But he, despite that some don't like him, is most definitely a professional level BJ player. He could go back to playing blackjack for a living at any time he desired. He has the knowledge and skill.

2) Half Smoke. Half Smoke has revealed several times now that for 7+ years he counted cards in Atlantic City. I get the feeling it wasn't exactly recently, nor do I know if he did so professionally (probably not). But he has the knowledghe that he could have if he wanted.

3 & 4) MickeyCrimm and Axelwolf. Both have indicated that they did some card counting in their careers as part of a more well rounded advantage play attack. While I suspect neither did so exclusively for a living, for even a year or so, both certainly could have. Both have the knowledge to have succeeded as a professional card counter if they had desired to.

There have been a few others that have come and gone, Kim Lee, another guy that was here a short time that has asked me not to use his name on this forum. And a couple others that I am forgetting I am sure.

Moses and dawg intentionally not on the list. At the end of his life, Moses revealed he had made 100k over 10 years card counting in Reno. That is 10k a year. That is short of professional level to me. And Dawg has demonstrated zero real knowledge of card counting.

So of these 4 members who I consider professional Level card counters, and by the way if there is someone else that thinks they qualify, make your case, but of these 4, all 4 have at one time or another clearly expressed that I know what the fuck I am talking about with card counting. Two of them, Zenking and Half smoke have done so in the last 7 days.

I know this isn't what you want to hear acctinQ, but I have always said that the real card counter/BJ AP's have no doubts about me.

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Now not to make it a competition with redietz, but since you did exactly that acctinQ, how many professional level sports bettors are there on this forum? I don't know? Anyone want to make that claim? :confused:

I know there are a handful of professional level advantage players that do some sports betting as part of their advantage play repertoire (myself, axelwolf, mickeycrimm included), but it seems all of us have pretty big doubts about Mr Deitz's claims, particularly after he made some of his bizarre EV comments which he has doubled down and triple down on. No serious sports bettor, claiming to have made a living from sports betting can make and stand by those comments.

So that is my conclusion AcctinQ. I know it is not what you want to hear. You want to hear that the majority of this troll dominated forum, has strong doubts about me. No one cares what the trolls think. I care what the real players, who have proven themselves to be real APs with the knowledge, skill and experience that goes with that think, particularly the ones with BJ/card counting knowledge think. I am very satisfied with the results.

I didn't say you weren't an expert at blackjack.

I just don't think it takes much to be an expert in BJ. I think Redietz has a deeper and broader knowledge of all there is to know about CFB than you do about BJ.

You've barely even played outside of LV. What a bit of time in AC?

I also never said Redietz is an expert sports bettor. I said nothing about gambling in my original statement. Your counter-argument is addressing irrelevant issues.

Mdawg is probably about the same level of expert in baccarat as you are in blackjack. That doesn't mean that much though so calm the fuck down.

edit - A true experienced expert would just sit back in silence and let their results speak. Not trip over themselves waving around their hand yelling me me me me.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Mdawg is probably about the same level of expert in baccarat as you are in blackjack. That doesn't mean that much though so calm the fuck down.

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Perhaps the single dumbest statement you have ever made. Mdawg is a losing gambler. If you need proof, the casinos have his records because he plays rated, so they KNOW he is a losing gambler. And that is why they comp him out the ass. Casinos comp losing players. THAT is the model. They don't comp players that have taken them for millions for years.

So please explain to all of us how someone can be an expert losing and long-time, long-term losing player? :confused: Next you will tell us Tasha is an expert player, or no offense to Alan's son, but you will tell us Alan was an expert player.

And really, it is the same exact thing with this Bob Dietz. If Dietz was or is such an expert college football bettor, why does he need other peoples money to make money? And this isn't just me saying Deitz is a tout and makes his money "selling" to other people. READ HIS WEBSITE. He laid it all out himself.

You really need to look up what a Professional player, gambler or advantage player is. You can't be an expert player if you are a losing (long-term) player. You can't be an expert player if you need to sell picks to make money.

Do you know what makes me an expert at blackjack. It isn't that I understand the game and the math. There are like a million people that understand the game and the math. The math hasn't changed in 60 years. Maybe slightly when the casino went to more decks, the player needed to change betting strategies slightly, but basically still the same math. And there are a ton of player that used to or tried to play for a living and now can't even sit down at a table. THAT is what makes me an expert. I KNOW how to play, win and be welcome to keep playing, supporting myself for 22 years now, 16 in Vegas.

If someone new to the game of BJ were to come to this site and sift through all the return-fire trolling and read only what I write about blackjack, they would have the knowledge to be not just a winning player, but a successful winning player for a long time. They might not have the mental disposition or bankroll to succeed. That I can't teach them, but they would have all the knowledge they needed to succeed. THAT is what makes me an expert at blackjack.

Dawg has probably lost 10 million in just the years he has been telling this little "adventure" and Redietz needs to sell picks to support himself. Expert players. Please! :cool: Mickeycrimm is an expert winning player/AP. Axelwolf is an expert player/AP. Zenking has become an expert blackjack player. Probably others that I am not all that familiar with what all they do. Dawg and redietz, NOT so much! Nor Singer! ;)

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Do you know what makes me an expert at blackjack. It isn't that I understand the game and the math. There are like a million people that understand the game and the math. The math hasn't changed in 60 years. Maybe slightly when the casino went to more decks, the player needed to change betting strategies slightly, but basically still the same math. And there are a ton of player that used to or tried to play for a living and now can't even sit down at a table. THAT is what makes me an expert. I KNOW how to play, win and be welcome to keep playing, supporting myself for 22 years now, 16 in Vegas.

If someone new to the game of BJ were to come to this site and sift through all the return-fire trolling and read only what I write about blackjack, they would have the knowledge to be not just a winning player, but a successful winning player for a long time. They might not have the mental disposition or bankroll to succeed. That I can't teach them, but they would have all the knowledge they needed to succeed. THAT is what makes me an expert at blackjack.

Dawg has probably lost 10 million in just the years he has been telling this little "adventure" and Redietz needs to sell picks to support himself. Expert players. Please! :cool:

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So you can still play because you've limited yourself to such a low hourly that casinos don't care enough to watch you? Maybe it isn't that you're an expert so much as you don't have anything else to do in life? Most people who have all these traits you list are also better off just getting a fucking job and making $100k. It isn't that hard to make $100k a year. When I was a kid yea sure but not in the past 10 years. Not once you hit 30 and apply yourself and aren't cursed as some sort of mongroid. I'm pretty sure the illegals I hired for a house remodel make more than that.

You have done it for so long because you play such meager/grind stakes and therefore that means you know oh-so-much. Give us a break, Kewl.

You're also an expert in the blackjack gaming machine bug. Funny, really. What an irony that is.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

So you can still play because you've limited yourself to such a low hourly that casinos don't care enough to watch you? Maybe it isn't that you're an expert so much as you don't have anything else to do in life? Most people who have all these traits you list are also better off just getting a fucking job and making $100k. It isn't that hard to make $100k a year. When I was a kid yea sure but not in the past 10 years. Not once you hit 30 and apply yourself and aren't cursed as some sort of mongroid. I'm pretty sure the illegals I hired for a house remodel make more than that.

You have done it for so long because you play such meager/grind stakes and therefore that means you know oh-so-much. Give us a break, Kewl.

You're also an expert in the blackjack gaming machine bug. Funny, really. What an irony that is.

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This is more you talking shit you have no clue about. My max bet is between $800 and $1200 depending on the make-up of players at the table. My hourly is above $200. The only reason it is not higher is because I currently play more crowded situations where the game moves slower. THAT is the trade off I have made to the way I currently play. If you think casinos don't care enough about players playing with an advantage spreading these amounts and making a couple hundred dollars an hour, then honestly, I don't think you have EVER played blackjack in Las Vegas. You are embarrassing yourself with that kind of statement mate.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

So you can still play because you've limited yourself to such a low hourly that casinos don't care enough to watch you? Maybe it isn't that you're an expert so much as you don't have anything else to do in life? Most people who have all these traits you list are also better off just getting a fucking job and making $100k. It isn't that hard to make $100k a year. When I was a kid yea sure but not in the past 10 years. Not once you hit 30 and apply yourself and aren't cursed as some sort of mongroid. I'm pretty sure the illegals I hired for a house remodel make more than that.

You have done it for so long because you play such meager/grind stakes and therefore that means you know oh-so-much. Give us a break, Kewl.

You're also an expert in the blackjack gaming machine bug. Funny, really. What an irony that is.

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This is more you talking shit you have no clue about. My max bet is between $800 and $1200 depending on the make-up of players at the table. My hourly is above $200. The only reason it is not higher is because I currently play more crowded situations where the game moves slower. THAT is the trade off I have made to the way I currently play. If you think casinos don't care enough about players playing with an advantage spreading these amounts and making a couple hundred dollars an hour, then honestly, I don't think you have EVER played blackjack in Las Vegas. You are embarrassing yourself with that kind of statement mate.

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Is this the truth you've landed on after people started giving you shit for bragging about making a uhm lets say modest amount?

The best part though is this thing where you actually see having played blackjack in LV as some accomplishment when you don't realize everyone and their mother has played blackjack in LV, "mate". Now what're you, British or Australian?

I'll tell you what is weird. This is a gambling forum (or what is left of it). You seem to want to put down people making a living gambling and tell us all how much more successful you are outside of gambling. Shades of you know who. :rolleyes: Perhaps you need to find a forum about whatever it is you do outside of gambling and go there and share how successful you are.

This is a gambling forum and near as I can tell your great claim is that you multi-carded for a few months.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I'll tell you what is weird. This is a gambling forum (or what is left of it). You seem to want to put down people making a living gambling and tell us all how much more successful you are outside of gambling. Shades of you know who. :rolleyes: Perhaps you need to find a forum about whatever it is you do outside of gambling and go there and share how successful you are.

This is a gambling forum and near as I can tell your great claim is that you multi-carded for a few months.

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Haha - you were the one for many years ago bragged about your humble numbers. Now that people pointed out it isn't so great, you're betting $1k a hand.

Plenty of APs don't make 100k a year but at least they're out in the world and are able to ply their game at different times. Or from home. Or on the road. There is some adventure to it. Counting literally requires you constantly thinking about something that is a very monotonous process. Like .. waiting for hands in poker - you can at least diddle about on your phone. Sports betting done from home or researching stuff you like. Video poker is kinda a good sweat.

I even like playing blackjack but if I had to keep track of a count? hahaha - I really can't think of a form of gambling that'd make me want to shoot myself. Just sayin'

I don't see actual winning gamblers taking offense at the shit I say. They know it is true.

Maybe you need to find a forum that spew your marlarky, son.

ps - I've talked about my gambling experience in many other places. I only brought up multi-carding recently in context of you being so full of it. There was no claim to fame or anything else. You're just lyin' again. Lyin Kewl.

I have no idea what you have talked about at other places that I don't participate at. I only know what you talk about here and all of the sudden you seem to want to come here, a gambling forum and put down people that gamble for a living. Check that. Since you are not putting down Crimm, or Axelwolf or Druff or Zenking or anyone else that gambles for a living, apparently it is just me. Like I have known for a while, you have a bug up your ass about me and want to diminish what I have accomplished.

Now I have explained the change in how I play which occurred about 5 years ago. I played lower limits ($400 or so max bet) for about my first 10 years. The hourly wasn't all that much lower because I could get many, many more rounds an hour on average. Occasionally, I could get a heads up game with 400-600 rounds and hour that would be worth much much more.

The reason I switched from playing the local circuit and the $400 or so max bet was because I had suddenly gotten a number of entries in OSN, one very devastating entry. I knew it was going to require a much longer break than I usually took when I got into that kind of situation. So I completely re-invented myself and how I play, playing crowded condition in the shadow of larger bettors.

I clearly shared all this. If you chose not to read it, that is fine. But don't go making up bullshit like I changes because of other reasons.

And here is some advice for you: If you find keeping a count at blackjack as something as unpleasant that you would want to shoot yourself, then don't do it. Who is asking you to? Don't play blackjack for all I care. If you need your gambling to be fun, well that probably crosses from advantage play into degenerate gambling. Had this exact discussion with the late Alan, when he said counting cards would take the fun out of it. I gave him the same advise...."Then don't do it"

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have no idea what you have talked about at other places that I don't participate at. I only know what you talk about here and all of the sudden you seem to want to come here, a gambling forum and put down people that gamble for a living. Check that. Since you are not putting down Crimm, or Axelwolf or Druff or Zenking or anyone else that gambles for a living, apparently it is just me. Like I have known for a while, you have a bug up your ass about me and want to diminish what I have accomplished.

Now I have explained the change in how I play which occurred about 5 years ago. I played lower limits ($400 or so max bet) for about my first 10 years. The hourly wasn't all that much lower because I could get many, many more rounds an hour on average. Occasionally, I could get a heads up game with 400-600 rounds and hour that would be worth much much more.

The reason I switched from playing the local circuit and the $400 or so max bet was because I had suddenly gotten a number of entries in OSN, one very devastating entry. I knew it was going to require a much longer break than I usually took when I got into that kind of situation. So I completely re-invented myself and how I play, playing crowded condition in the shadow of larger bettors.

I clearly shared all this. If you chose not to read it, that is fine. But don't go making up bullshit like I changes because of other reasons.

And here is some advice for you: If you find keeping a count at blackjack as something as unpleasant that you would want to shoot yourself, then don't do it. Who is asking you to? Don't play blackjack for all I care. If you need your gambling to be fun, well that probably crosses from advantage play into degenerate gambling. Had this exact discussion with the late Alan, when he said counting cards would take the fun out of it. I gave him the same advise...."Then don't do it"

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Dipshit - I've been a poster on here for 6 years now with 1k posts a year. Yet you only remember what I posted 2 weeks ago? And you want to give me shit for having some number you present off a bit? My memory is far better than yours. You can't even get straight what people say in one single thread. I'm not sure how you could possibly count accurately

I'm not putting down those people. You're just too stupid to know better. I gambled for a living for many years. None of those guys are counters though. Thats the thing. You've given up all freedom with your claimed approach. Oh I guess Zenking is the one counter and boy lemme tell ya how happy and well adjusted that fine gentleman is.

So you're in OSN and so you upped your bet in this reinvention to counter your entry into OSN?

So you're right - I'm not counting cards. I'm just explaining to others who might think it is some cool/good idea. You have to be completely shithouse insane like Zenking (bless his heart) to find that a path worth choosing. He's clearly too much to work for other people - so I respect that. All these people you list though outside of him - none of them seem to fuck with counting cards.

Why is that?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

. Oh I guess Zenking is the one counter and boy lemme tell ya how happy and well adjusted that fine gentleman is...
...You have to be completely shithouse insane like Zenking (bless his heart) to find that a path worth choosing.

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Dude, Zenking seems FAR saner and more well adjusted to me that YOU do. So he used to rant a little venting during times of negative variance, which blackjack card counting has many such periods. Nothing wrong with that. I have done that too. Maybe not as extreme as him, with the "everyone is out to get me shit", but nothing wrong with a little venting. EVERY professional or serious card counter will vent a little at times. A gambling forum is as good as any place.

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Originally Posted by mcap

You’re going into these elaborate logic chains that aren’t ALL that different from saying you couldn’t possibly count cards for a living in Las Vegas for over a decade….

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

None of those guys are counters though. Thats the thing.

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don't know why you would make a blatantly false statement like that
since you don't know me or know anything about me
not that I care what you think about me or my abilities
but your willingness to post something I know to be so obviously false is telling

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

None of those guys are counters though. Thats the thing.

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don't know why you would make a blatantly false statement like that
since you don't know me or know anything about me
not that I care what you think about me or my abilities
but your willingness to post something I know to be so obviously false is telling

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Here is what is going on Half Smoke. AccountinQ has become one of the trolls on this forum. He didn't start out that way, but somewhere along the line he became one and aligned himself with Mdawg. They talk privately and accountinQ repeats dawg talking points and lies. They want the narrative to be that nobody believes anything I say or have claimed.

I have tried to tell them, that only the small, but vocal group of trolls doesn't believe me. That the real APs and especially card counters all know what I say is true, even without having met me, because frankly it just doesn't take that much to know or figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking.

So you and other real APs and knowledgeable card counters expressing that I know what I am talking about is the last thing they want to hear. And the only way to combat that is to then lie about and try to discredit you as well, which is what he did.

I keep fighting this battle against the trolls, but it is a battle we just can't win, as you can see because they will just lie about you too and anybody that says anything they don't want to hear or accept.

I do appreciate you weighing in, but don't let them drag you too far into it. Just not worth it.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

If Dietz was or is such an expert college football bettor, why does he need other peoples money to make money?

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Greed, for lack of a better word.

It's a business model, the same way any investment fund manager accepts other peoples' (investors) money.

Even the top advisors/managers, who are already billionaires, recruit and accept investors.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

You are playing the coach belly role, making shit up

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I've never made anything up, if that's what you're implying. What shit did I make up?

On the other hand, your posting history speaks for itself when it comes to making shit up...

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Why is it not fair to mention Kim Lee? He has seen all the publications and added up dietz record and it is not enough to make any real money from.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I wanted to support Bob (redietz) as a long-time handicapper who tried to play it straight by having Integrity Sports monitored. I don't know how he paid his rent in Vegas, but he could have mixed betting with touting, shopping numbers and playing promotions in town, perhaps booking some bets on the side. He could also have had other sources of money.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I merely know of Redietz from studying old handicapper records.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I don't know how Redietz handicapped in the 1980's or whether his early winning records were just luck.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

The truth is … UNKewlJ hasn’t spent 20 years playing blackjack. He’s spent 20 years trying to convince people that he’s been playing blackjack.

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

None of those guys are counters though. Thats the thing.

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don't know why you would make a blatantly false statement like that
since you don't know me or know anything about me
not that I care what you think about me or my abilities
but your willingness to post something I know to be so obviously false is telling

.

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If you count professionally as your prime source of income that I was clearly wrong. I didn't even recall you being in the list. My point still stands regardless.

Yea, so telling .... don't be a moron.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Greed, for lack of a better word.

It's a business model, the same way any investment fund manager accepts other peoples' (investors) money.

Even the top advisors/managers, who are already billionaires, recruit and accept investors.



I've never made anything up, if that's what you're implying. What shit did I make up?

On the other hand, your posting history speaks for itself when it comes to making shit up...

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Why is it not fair to mention Kim Lee? He has seen all the publications and added up dietz record and it is not enough to make any real money from.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I wanted to support Bob (redietz) as a long-time handicapper who tried to play it straight by having Integrity Sports monitored. I don't know how he paid his rent in Vegas, but he could have mixed betting with touting, shopping numbers and playing promotions in town, perhaps booking some bets on the side. He could also have had other sources of money.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I merely know of Redietz from studying old handicapper records.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I don't know how Redietz handicapped in the 1980's or whether his early winning records were just luck.

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Also fun. Say what you want about redietz and his abilities as a professional gambler but the dude seems to really truly enjoy what he does.

Contrast this to zenking and Kewl.

Counting cards decades ago doesn't really count for much. I know tons of people counted cards and fucked with it at some point in their life. Being a weekend warriors counter counts great. As a profession now? Lol

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I know tons of people counted cards and fucked with it at some point in their life. Being a weekend warriors counter counts great. As a profession now? Lol

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So a weekend warrior card counter is ok. But professional card counter is not, in your book.

I have news for you mate, for the last 4 years, I am both. :cool:

What comes through here is the massive arrogance of you. Telling people what to do or not to do to make a living. Or what is acceptable or not to you.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I know tons of people counted cards and fucked with it at some point in their life. Being a weekend warriors counter counts great. As a profession now? Lol

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So a weekend warrior card counter is ok. But professional card counter is not, in your book.

I have news for you mate, for the last 4 years, I am both. :cool:

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"mate". Again, you're not Australian.

I have this distinct impression you put on a fake accent when you go out in the real world.

Anything one enjoys that is fun is and not a vice is good. If you are counting at +EV then there is no downside. Making money while having fun. Thats hard to do. You would need to be absolutely insane to want to do that for 10+ years for 30+ hours a week. Insane non-stop concentration. Like... man there are better places to apply yourself.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure my point is obvious. You're just flailing about saying random shit to get attention.

Relying on counting for your bread and butter? lmao. There is a guy I follow on twitter. He's getting out in the world and traveling around. Maximizing his EV. He actually seems to have a pretty interesting life and does well but I also believe he talks about not doing it for years. Thats what a sharp person would do.

However - if you don't mind the monotony and variance of it for a full time job, are able to stay in action, etc, then great for you. Thats why you're "kewl" J.

The one guy we know of that is a counter on the style of Kewlj is Zenking. According to you he's just a normal guy who rants like anyone. I see something totally different. Quality poster. Expressive. Interesting posts but happy? ... lol :)

People that count cards for a living or even part-time supplementing other income are a special breed that you acctinQ can never understand.

It is about the money. We wouldn't do it with no money involved. But it is about more than JUST the money. WE like beating the casino by such a method. Figuring out how to play to keep playing. Playing the cat and mouse game (although that get tiresome). At the end of the year, good year or year below expectation, I love sitting back and thinking I have beat the casino for another year.

And every single one of us, whether they do so professionally or the majority of their income, or what I call "professional level", for some smaller supplemental part of their income, could do something else for that same money at less hassle if we chose. And many do move on to other things, both inside and outside of gambling, but those that stick with it enjoy winning this way.

Who the fuck are you acctinQ to tell us what is or isn't acceptable to you?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

The one guy we know of that is a counter on the style of Kewlj is Zenking. According to you he's just a normal guy who rants like anyone. I see something totally different. Quality poster. Expressive. Interesting posts but happy? ... lol :)

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Never said any of that. I don't know Zenking. I have no idea how "normal", nor how happy he is. Although people that know him have said he is very different than when he rants on the forum. All I have said about Zenking, is that he very definitely knows what he is doing in regards to card counting. And whether he has moved on from it now or not, could at any time go back to supporting himself from it.

I was critical of some of his ranting posts. Go back and read. Especially the parts where the whole world is or was against him. But the venting itself is not unusual among fulltime or "professional level" card counters. Because the edge is so slim and the variance so huge, a player can and WILL go long periods of losing. That can be frustrating and sometimes we need to vent a little. To a spouse, significant other, friend or even on a gambling forum. It is NOT that unusual.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

People that count cards for a living or even part-time supplementing other income are a special breed that you acctinQ can never understand.

It is about the money. We wouldn't do it with no money involved. But it is about more than JUST the money. WE like beating the casino by such a method. Figuring out how to play to keep playing. Playing the cat and mouse game (although that get tiresome). At the end of the year, good year or year below expectation, I love sitting back and thinking I have beat the casino for another year.

And every single one of us, whether they do so professionally or the majority of their income, or what I call "professional level", for some smaller supplemental part of their income, could do something else for that same money at less hassle if we chose. And many do move on to other things, both inside and outside of gambling, but those that stick with it enjoy winning this way.

Who the fuck are you acctinQ to tell us what is or isn't acceptable to you?

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I love how you want soooo bad to be part of the bj counter identity. You start using the royal "we".

I can "never understand" because you and Zenking are just so unique. <eyeroll>

It is about the money. Clue bus incoming - all jobs are about the money. Most people don't want a job where you show up and are randomly fired and put on some sort of no-work list. In your world though thats all cool beans. Maybe because that isn't your actual situation?

You don't have much clue about gambling because you'd understand the distinction between someone who counts as their primary income vs someone who does it some times as a supplemental thing. Poker has the same concept as do all forms of gambling. I can give you my observation on which group seems almost universally happier.

Just like you want to keep everyone clueful about the big lies of Singer and Mdawg - I want to point out of the obviousness of what it means to be a professional card counter in this day and age. I get it though - you're "Kewl" J and you gotta be "kewl" and what I'm selling is far from it. :cool:

Do you know what one of my favorite parts of card counting is? It is coming through a huge negative swing. Don't have as many long down turns as I used to or at least haven't the past couple years, but when you are at xxx amount for the year and then hit a losing period of weeks, months, dropping 30-40-50K and then play through that back to where you started and then the next thing you know, 2 weeks later you are up 30k from that xxx spot.

It reaffirms that the math works, and I have the skill, temperament to ride the rollercoaster and win long-term. That is very fulfilling to me. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Don't you realize everyone clowns on you and those who don't basically do it out of pity or possibly out of some desire to not help mdawg?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I can "never understand" because you and Zenking are just so unique. <eyeroll>

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WRONG!! Zenking and I are NOT unique. Just so happens that on this little bity forum we are the two members that share a little bit about the card counting we do. There have been other but they never last long here. Recently Half Smoke has spoken up which I welcome.

But you go over to WoV and there are 8-10 "professional level" card counters like Zenking and I (maybe more counting all different levels). Go to a BJ forum like Norms and there are.30+. Granted there are far fewer than there used to be, but we are not the rare unicorns you make us out to be.

The weird part to me isn't how unique or "rare" we are, but this judgement crap from you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Don't you realize everyone clowns on you and those who don't basically do it out of pity or possibly out of some desire to not help mdawg?

---

---

Dawg you are just completely irrelevant to any real discussion. This discussion isn't all bad. Some reasonable elements to it.

But you Dawg can't even contribute (other than your usual trolling) because you are not a real card counter or winning player. You are a guy that gambles, loses, gets comped for his losses, while making up a story about how he wins and how great he is and how rich he is. There is something seriously wrong with you dude!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

The weird part to me isn't how unique or "rare" we are, but this judgement crap from you?

---

KJ, AIQ posts because he's bored.

Much like Coach Belly and myself he has little to add to any detailed gambling discussion other than to argue.

It's more like he pisses in the pot than simply stirring it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Do you know what one of my favorite parts of card counting is? It is coming through a huge negative swing. Don't have as many long down turns as I used to or at least haven't the past couple years, but when you are at xxx amount for the year and then hit a losing period of weeks, months, dropping 30-40-50K and then play through that back to where you started and then the next thing you know, 2 weeks later you are up 30k from that xxx spot.

It reaffirms that the math works, and I have the skill, temperament to ride the rollercoaster and win long-term. That is very fulfilling to me. :)

---

That is gambling in general. Someone is going get shithouse lucky and someone is going to be shithouse unlucky. There is luck in everything we do but gambling puts it to the forefront.

Personally I hate being miserable on a prolonged downswing. When you don't rely on the gambling as your only source of income then things are far different.

I've often thought about it.. there is some gambler out there who is literally the most unlucky person in the history of man. And no matter what he does, he just runs bad. Poker is like BJ in that you have to be honest to yourself about your errors. You can't just sit back and say to yourself "the math will even this out". You have to be able to analyze your play and make corrections or come to the realization that you should just quit.

Regardless, I don't do well with big downswings. It is harder in poker because you may not have tools to objectively tell whether you're playing bad. I ran bad in the early days of online poker and kinda went off for years wasting time on a side project that did nothing. Friends who were more talented and such kept at it and minted during those early years. Oh well.

BTW the math doesn't say you'll have an upswing to bring it back up. The only real thing you can do is just not overly spend money when it is coming in under some delusionment that your EV is far higher than it actually is due to running good. Thats a big downfall in gamblers.

Regardless for guys like you and Zenking who keep at it - it says a lot about your grit and determination. It might also speak to how you have few options otherwise but .. regardless most can't handle that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

The weird part to me isn't how unique or "rare" we are, but this judgement crap from you?

---

KJ, AIQ posts because he's bored.

Much like Coach Belly and myself he has little to add to any detailed gambling discussion other than to argue.

It's more like he pisses in the pot than simply stirring it.

---

I shit in the pot and then when I get up and see your nose peeking out from the depths and I'm like oh shit I did it again. I shat right on MisterVs brown nose.


whatever this means....

Another thing that seems to make pro-gamblers succeed is to just be a huge action junky but coupled with talent and some discipline. If you somehow enjoy the grind and keep at it....

Look at someone like Phil Ivey. Many guys out there have his level of talent but how many of them want to go chase around games all their life? I was recently told how Keith Lehr operates. Holy shit that is impressive but I'm not sure if it is public knowledge. Then there are plenty of poker players who make their nut and move on.

There is also an argument that not enjoying gambling makes a good pro poker player. Then they have to at least love money.. or they'll just move on.

my 2 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I've often thought about it.. there is some gambler out there who is literally the most unlucky person in the history of man.

---

I don't buy that. I mean, I guess there has to be a luckiest and unluckiest, but mostly the people that think they are unlucky and always bitching about some kind of bad beat (that is what you guys call it right) or bad run (in blackjack) are more likely players with some major holes in their games.

And that "no other options" nonsense is such bullshit. Anyone that makes any kind of decent money card counting, could make more doing something else. I have a college degree despite the propaganda you repeat. Zenking, I know went to college. I assume he graduated has a degree. Don't really know or care as it is none of my business. Why do you do this shit?

Again, you just don't get that we as card counters and other APs choose what we do.

I will say this one final time: Anyone that has made decent money from card counting or any other forum of AP, enough to support themselves for a period of time, could make more money doing something else. We all have options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

my 2 cents.

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Probably why they stopped production of pennies. Your 2 cents isn't worth two cents. :D

I am going to say something here that you are not going to like AcctinQ. And I really am not saying it to be mean to you. It is just my observation.

I see a lot of Mdawg in you. You put down other for what they do. Judge others. While all the time telling us how well you have done, how great you are. How much better you are.

Dawg does it because he is a complete insecure narcissist. He really is a fucked up dude. I am not sure it is the same with you. I think like MrV said, it is just fun and games (entertainment) to you.

But I hope (doubt) you will step back and take a look. Why are you so fucking judgmental of everyone else? And it is not just me, you have done so with Zenking and half Smoke as well JUST today. Are you this insecure or unhappy or what not? If so, find something that makes you happy besides this shit.

But I can't be the thing or person your world revolves around. I am tired of that shit. So have a good day, holiday season and life.

And just to come full circle, if you REALLY believe Bob Dietz, a guy who doesn't even understand EV is a college football expert, then your judgement is worse than I thought. An "expert" wouldn't need to sell picks. He wouldn't need other peoples money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I've often thought about it.. there is some gambler out there who is literally the most unlucky person in the history of man.

---

I don't buy that. I mean, I guess there has to be a luckiest and unluckiest, but mostly the people that think they are unlucky and always bitching about some kind of bad beat (that is what you guys call it right) or bad run (in blackjack) are more likely players with some major holes in their games.

And that "no other options" nonsense is such bullshit. Anyone that makes any kind of decent money card counting, could make more doing something else. I have a college degree despite the propaganda you repeat. Zenking, I know went to college. I assume he graduated has a degree. Don't really know or care as it is none of my business. Why do you do this shit?

Again, you just don't get that we as card counters and other APs choose what we do.

I will say this one final time: Anyone that has made decent money from card counting or any other forum of AP, enough to support themselves for a period of time, could make more money doing something else. We all have options.

---

You don't even understand how gambling/luck works. All you know is "it is the math" and have been told it averages out in the long run. There are clearly people who run severely under expectation for much of their life. Just like there are the guys who hit the 7 figure lick. That little thing you have no control over is what makes or breaks many gamblers. You get lucky when you bump up stakes then you can be set. Run bad and you're put back in life a year or more.

Lol Kewl. You have so few clues outside of what you read. Thats why you say whackadoodle shit once you start to lie outside of what you've read on the internet. Lots of people "go to college".. and in your world that just opens up all sorts of opportunities. okey dokey feller.

I'm pretty sure I've known far more "APs" than you have if you only count interacting with them in person. Also - at the higher levels of poker and such you start to run into APs who are ahead of the curve of what internet guys like you understand to exist. This "you don't know us" is such bullshit. You're bullshit. stop it. I'm not close to Phil Ivey's level but I've played many times in the high limit games in Vegas casinos. I doubt you even know what mixed games are.... you'd have to go off and google them. That I can guarantee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

my 2 cents.

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Probably why they stopped production of pennies. Your 2 cents isn't worth two cents. :D

I am going to say something here that you are not going to like AcctinQ. And I really am not saying it to be mean to you. It is just my observation.

I see a lot of Mdawg in you. You put down other for what they do. Judge others. While all the time telling us how well you have done, how great you are. How much better you are.

Dawg does it because he is a complete insecure narcissist. He really is a fucked up dude. I am not sure it is the same with you. I think like MrV said, it is just fun and games (entertainment) to you.

But I hope (doubt) you will step back and take a look. Why are you so fucking judgmental of everyone else? And it is not just me, you have done so with Zenking and half Smoke as well JUST today. Are you this insecure or unhappy or what not? If so, find something that makes you happy besides this shit.

But I can't be the thing or person your world revolves around. I am tired of that shit. So have a good day, holiday season and life.

And just to come full circle, if you REALLY believe Bob Dietz, a guy who doesn't even understand EV is a college football expert, then your judgement is worse than I thought. An "expert" wouldn't need to sell picks. He wouldn't need other peoples money.

---

No, you get on my nerves and I hate big phonies. Again, you lied to me and made up some complete bullshit story but you put in a ton of effort to be credible so people would believe you. I gave you a chance to retract and you said 'fuck off'. Ok, so here we are. I just don't want others believing your bullshit - just like you don't want others believing Singer and Mdawg.

You can barely understand how your toilet works. I don't care about your analysis of me but keep trying as it is amusing.

I don't know why you'd think Robert Dietz isn't an expert on college football. But again, you don't seem to know how a lot of this world works ... so...

Do you really not realize that being an expert on college football is not the same as having prowess as a gambler?

My life revolves around you but you're starting up new threads to interact with me.. lol. I made one simple statement.

I am not going to keep rehashing the shuffle machine situation. I am confident it will all come out in the next year or two as these lawsuits get underway and progress. Everyone in gambling understands that these machines have the capability to cheat because of the camera inside. And anyone who thinks there haven't been incidents of cheating is an idiot. How widespread and often...that we will find out.

You have a funny definition of expert. This is a gambling forum. Any definition of expert has to do with the ability to make money at whatever you are supposed to be an expert at. You are saying Dietz is an expert at college football but he can't make money at it without selling something. What kind of expert is that. I guess we could call on him when picking our fantasy teams. :rolleyes:

By that same token, Rob Singer has played a lot of VP. Does that make him an expert? The guy endured bankruptcies, and evictions and legal judgements at the time he claimed to be making lots of money on math defying "special plays". So he made no money from VP. The dude lived in a trailer park in Pahrump at the height of his silly claims. So is he an "expert" in your book.

You have a very funny definition of expert. I can tell you this much, after the Deitz's comments on EV, you will be hard pressed to find anyone else considering him an expert. How the fuck can you be an expert when you clearly don't understand the most basic concept.

What this boils down to acctinQ, what it always boils down to is you have decided you don't like me. (you proved it again in your above post). And that is fine. I am not running for miss congeniality. But you obsess and distort and lie about everything in an attempt to belittle me. And that is all this "redietz is an expert" thing was. You no more believe someone that doesn't understand EV is an expert that jumping over the moon. You just wanted to take a dig at me.

Get over it mate. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am not going to keep rehashing the shuffle machine situation. I am confident it will all come out in the next year or two as these lawsuits get underway and progress. Everyone in gambling understands that these machines have the capability to cheat because of the camera inside. And anyone who thinks there haven't been incidents of cheating is an idiot. How widespread and often...that we will find out.

You have a funny definition of expert. This is a gambling forum. Any definition of expert has to do with the ability to make money at whatever you are supposed to be an expert at. You are saying Dietz is an expert at college football but he can't make money at it without selling something. What kind of expert is that. I guess we could call on him when picking our fantasy teams. :rolleyes:

By that same token, Rob Singer has played a lot of VP. Does that make him an expert? The guy endured bankruptcies, and evictions and legal judgements at the time he claimed to be making lots of money on math defying "special plays". So he made no money from VP. The dude lived in a trailer park in Pahrump at the height of his silly claims. So is he an "expert" in your book.

You have a very funny definition of expert. I can tell you this much, after the Deitz's comments on EV, you will be hard pressed to find anyone else considering him an expert. How the fuck can you be an expert when you clearly don't understand the most basic concept.

---

You intentionally refuse to properly interpret the things you read. Smurger was right. I didn't realize it. You aren't actually this obtuse. It is just that reality has such little value to you that you go off on these weird tangents about made up shit. It is no different than you talking about your life. I said exactly what I meant and the fact this is a gambling forum doesn't do much to change that. I've restated this multiple times now. And you can act like you don't understand multiple times.

Anyway, these other guys feel sorry for you because of your need to lie and live a pretend fantasy life. I have a surplus of sympathy in some ways but it sure isn't for you.

Any definition of expert has to do with the ability to make money at whatever you are supposed to be an expert at. <- lol.

Get help.

You can tell when AcctinQ knows he has lost or come off badly in a discussion. He immediately gets nasty and goes to his "get help" nasty shit.

That is such a troll play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

You can tell when AcctinQ knows he has lost or come off badly in a discussion. He immediately gets nasty and goes to his "get help" nasty shit.

That is such a troll play.

---

Seriously as I can be. Get help.

Clearly you don't want to hear it but thats so often the case.

I still would love to know the reasoning as to why you'd go to play higher limits at fewer hours due to OSN. The higher you go the more they're going to sweat the action. If you're at a table with bigger bettors then they'll be watching that table and you will be a byproduct and unintentionally targeted person. Like... if they're watching the fucking table and tracking the count then it is pretty easy to see the guy 2 seats over is raising his bet when the count is high. When you do some weird move when the count is off and the pitboss/dealer yells out "hard hit soft 17" or whatever the fuck - that is easy to avoid and whatever. "cover play". When they actually have someone counting cards to investigate someone else - it doesn't matter much that you're a smaller bettor as they've already done 95% of the work. (determining a count) Just fast forward/rewind a few minutes and see ... like.. with a fast system it should be pretty easy to hop around an find the base bet and when you upped it. The guys the best at this are likely going to be at these shifts.

Is having that type of security at high limit BJ that can count in LV not a thing?

Where is my thinking wrong?


And while it is likely questionable to put such resources on a red chip game, it'll be quite obvious the value of such countermeasures when it is a green or blackchip table. Like ... I just don't see this as a solution to be a longetivity based player.

Does anyone else know Kewl's reasoning here?

IMO more likely being a red chip bj counter wasn't "kewl" enough so he had the up the stakes like he has been known to do. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

With all due respect AIQ, you don't know enough about either blackjack or sports betting to be making judgments about who's an expert on either. Grosjean has said he's shocked at how little additional blackjack research in developing has been done on blackjack since he exposed there was much more math to it in his books.

Take away the due respect and you sound like a complete fucking moron, like a college freshman taking his first psychology or philosophy course.

---

This post is the singularly most telling thing about AcctinQ agenda with all this expert shit. :rolleyes:


And now what are you up to 4, 5, 6? times asking the same question that I am not going to answer. You troll me, call me a lie, lie about me and then want me to answer a question like you are being decent, when all you are doing is some coach belly trolling shit.

And really the answer is not that hard to figure out. If you were familiar with database entries, you would know that they can contain all sorts of information about the player. A photo, a physical description. A description of identifying features, maybe a tattoo, maybe a scar. A description of how the player plays, including limits. Sometimes it might say something like "often seen in the company of.....".

Now if you can't figure it out from there, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should ask your gambling expert friend with the high IQ, who put that to work in a career as a "tout". Maybe together you can figure it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

kewlJ is basically the Boy Who Cried Wolf of these AP forums. He has lied so many times that it's impossible to believe any stories he tells

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Sometimes it might say something like "often seen in the company of.....".

---

Interesting little side story with this. It is common knowledge that it isn't a good idea for a card counter to play at a table with another card counter. Even if using different counts and styles they will basically be raising and lowering wagers in unison. You can disguise some of that, but can't eliminate it. Nothing good can come from continuing to play at a table with another counter.

So I had a friend I used to network with that one time found himself in that situation. He said "fuck it" I was here first, I am not leaving. Well the next thing he knew he was in the database, along with the other counter. That other counter was a known member of a known team. So my friend then had a notation linking him to that team of players of which he had no association with, which made the database 5 times worse.

So you have to understand how the database works. You have to understand how EVERYTHING works and avoid or minimize the pitfalls.

In my case all I am willing to say I needed a break or change from the way I had been playing for 10 years. And it needed to be longer than the couple months break I normally take with a database entry. It has now been 4+ years. I could probably go back to playing the way I used to or at least mix some in, but frankly, I like playing 1 or 2 nights a week and making close to what I used to make playing 5 days a week. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

The kewlJ(s) have no idea what they wrote months ago or yesterday. Their whole self-presentation is inconsistent and ridiculous.

There is something bizarre about a poster who persistently debunks himself and then acts as if people should believe him. It's gotta be some kind of joke.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

With all due respect AIQ, you don't know enough about either blackjack or sports betting to be making judgments about who's an expert on either. Grosjean has said he's shocked at how little additional blackjack research in developing has been done on blackjack since he exposed there was much more math to it in his books.

Take away the due respect and you sound like a complete fucking moron, like a college freshman taking his first psychology or philosophy course.

---

This post is the singularly most telling thing about AcctinQ agenda with all this expert shit. :rolleyes:


And now what are you up to 4, 5, 6? times asking the same question that I am not going to answer. You troll me, call me a lie, lie about me and then want me to answer a question like you are being decent, when all you are doing is some coach belly trolling shit.

And really the answer is not that hard to figure out. If you were familiar with database entries, you would know that they can contain all sorts of information about the player. A photo, a physical description. A description of identifying features, maybe a tattoo, maybe a scar. A description of how the player plays, including limits. Sometimes it might say something like "often seen in the company of.....".

Now if you can't figure it out from there, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should ask your gambling expert friend with the high IQ, who put that to work in a career as a "tout". Maybe together you can figure it out.

---

I asked everyone as a whole. Not just you. It sounds like bullshit reasoning - Exactly what I said. My reasoning is solid so you gotta go back and try to find some random backup and reinforce that because you refuse to address the issue because you can't.

Now you're redietzing me with the Riddler type talk.

Brother, I have figured it out. It seems like bad advice to me. This is what real APs do - they figure out upstairs operations so one can determine how to operate in whatever/angle scheme you are doing. I'm just trying to have an open conversation. You completely avoid it because your idea sounded good enough and now you're committed to the lie. All your 'this is how we do it' talk.

You're playing prime time when security is staffed up the best.
You're playing at the bigger/est tables which are getting the most heat.
Your table selection is considerably smaller.
You're playing at the tables with the highest incentive for the casino to track the count due to anyone fucking around with their bet size.

So you might say they're only looking for you in the lower limits. Like .. the higher limit security guys aren't memorizing faces from the red-chip section of OSN? Is that what we're going with?

Sure you have to play less for the same income but you're in an exponentially more sweaty situation.

I mean it might work if you're not playing near every weekend but I dunno .. who knows .. lol possibly.

Ultimately it seems like a bad idea as you'd be in some sort of collateral damage/observation situation?

All that adds up to bad idea, to me, homie. *IF* you are infact trying to be mr counting4life

You always whine about serious discussion this, serious discussion that. How this forum yadda yadda.. then here we are. Lets have a serious discussion.

Or get help.

AccountinQ doesn't understand how not being the largest bettor at the table, even with max bet out would be advantageous and draw less attention.

I am sorry dude, it is NOT my job to explain it to you, if it is something I would rather not discuss on open forum in detail. But you might want to read this post by Mcap yet again. You are talking about shit and trying to make counter-points proving me wrong about subject matter, that it is fairly obvious to everyone, you know little about.

I have received two backoffs this year. Lowest total ever. Just maybe I know what the fuck I am doing and you are talking shit that you don't know about! :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

With all due respect AIQ, you don't know enough about either blackjack or sports betting to be making judgments about who's an expert on either. Grosjean has said he's shocked at how little additional blackjack research in developing has been done on blackjack since he exposed there was much more math to it in his books.

Take away the due respect and you sound like a complete fucking moron, like a college freshman taking his first psychology or philosophy course.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

kewlJ: just admit that you enjoy telling stories for attention on forums, and will try to stop doing this in the future.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

AccountinQ doesn't understand how not being the largest bettor at the table, even with max bet out would be advantageous and draw less attention.

I am sorry dude, it is NOT my job to explain it to you, if it is something I would rather not discuss on open forum in detail. But you might want to read this post by Mcap yet again. You are talking about shit and trying to make counter-points proving me wrong about subject matter, that it is fairly obvious to everyone, you know little about.

I have received two backoffs this year. Lowest total ever. Just maybe I know what the fuck I am doing and you are talking shit that you don't know about! :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcap

With all due respect AIQ, you don't know enough about either blackjack or sports betting to be making judgments about who's an expert on either. Grosjean has said he's shocked at how little additional blackjack research in developing has been done on blackjack since he exposed there was much more math to it in his books.

Take away the due respect and you sound like a complete fucking moron, like a college freshman taking his first psychology or philosophy course.

---

---

Nope. If you are at the table with the largest bettor it seems like they're going to be paying attention to the count. The count is the labor intensive part. When you are reviewing one guy you're going to be reviewing the rest of the bettors. This guy is betting black chips... then rewind it to look at your primary target and glance at other guys. Hey wait this guy was betting green back before count changed. Lets observe this guy closer.

What? Do you think you'll just get a walk because a big bettor is there? You were the one bragging about $200 an hour. Doesn't compute to me.

I mean if you look at it from an actual operational level is what the best APs do from what little I know... but you can just simplify it and say "oh they won't be paying attention to me because this guy is a bigger bettor". Sure your simplification makes sense at that level but I'm just going through my head in practice. Like the time you claimed you could count 3 tables. 2 wasn't enough, had to push it. ;)

Maybe you were backed off maybe you're making it up like so much other stuff. WHo knows man, who knows.. You make up so much stuff what you say about bj means so little.

BTW Your quoting other people is something you've learned from Mdawg. I don't know if you realize it but.. you went from redietzing me with the oh it is so obvious but I won't say ... to repeating the 1 guy that kinda supported you by going after your opponent. Mcap has no clue what I know or don't know and I don't think it is that hard to evaluate whether someone is an expert - whatever that even means.

His point wasn't even relevant as I never said anything about someone being an expert in sports betting or not... lol soooooo... ?

Redietz prides himself in delving into cfb in an autistic like obsessive manner. Whether you know more about blackjack or not? Who knows lol. You're kinda dopey if you read much into that as such things are near impossible to quantify in a useful manner. Great to wind you up though.

Man I need to get to work. Which is more fun, Kewl or doing work? Why fucking with Kewl is more fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Mcap has no clue what I know or don't know

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He knows enough to KNOW you don't know what you are talking about when discussing blackjack card counting. I kind of forgot who Mcap was for a minute because he doesn't post much. He is an experienced card counter, or was at one point. I don't really know what all he does now. And every other person on this forum whether they count cards or not knows that you have no clue what you are talking about. You are just fucking talking! Just arguing points you know shit about.

And you KNOW how people know you don't know what the fuck you are talking about? Your posts are littered with these phrases: "what do I know", "from what little I know", "maybe it is, maybe it isn't". "what makes sense to me" ect. Dude you are a fucking nut job arguing with people when you don't know shit and the people you are arguing with, me, Zenking, Half Smoke, Mcap do know what the fuck we are talking about.

Here is a perfect example of you just making some shit up out of the blue: "If you are at the table with the largest bettor it seems like they're going to be paying attention to the count. The count is the labor intensive part. When you are reviewing one guy you're going to be reviewing the rest of the bettors".


This may seem logical to you, someone who has no clue but it is NOT how an evaluation works. And evaluation is done by computer on a specific player. There is NO labor intensive part. The pit will call upstairs and say "run an evaluation on player in seat 4. If you are in seat 5 you are no more at risk that someone on the other side of the casino. So throw what seems logical to you out the window....you are as usual 100% wrong!

Now I know what to do and not do to not trigger an evaluation or minimize the chances. One such rule is to not be the biggest bettor at the table. Another is to not spread through different colors (if possible). You completely made up that I spread green to black. That was when I played the local circuit. On the strip at $100 minimum tables I spread black period. And my minimum bet isn't even $100. I spread down to that in negative counts. That is called spreading both ways. Do you have any idea what that means? It makes it much harder to actually see the spread. And much less likely an evaluation will be triggered.

And finally, in the event that an evaluation (done by computer, not a person) is triggered, I usually know or have figured it out. At a game moving slowly as the full tables on weekends do, such an evaluation will take minimum 45 minutes. They have to see the count rise and go back to the shuffle and sometime waiting for the count to rise can take several shoes. (30-45 minutes) If you exit at the shuffle after showing max bet, there is very little chance they have the info they need before you have exited. And playing unrated, the partial evaluation is trash. It isn't held over until the next time you sit down and hand over your card, because you don't hand over a card.

Now I am done with you. You are talking shit you have no fucking clue about. You have even admitted that I am an expert in BJ (your words) and now you who has more than proven you don't know what you are talking about, are sitting there arguing with the expert (by your own admission). Dude, that is like the fucking definition of an idiot!! What the fuck is the matter with you? To steal a phrase from Jdaewoo, you are fucking retarded!

PS. You really should stop your private communications with Dawg. He is making you look like as big an idiot as he is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Mcap has no clue what I know or don't know

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He knows enough to KNOW you don't know what you are talking about when discussing blackjack card counting. I kind of forgot who Mcap was for a minute because he doesn't post much. He is an experienced card counter, or was at one point. I don't really know what all he does now. And every other person on this forum whether they count cards or not knows that you have no clue what you are talking about. You are just fucking talking! Just arguing points you know shit about.

And you KNOW how people know you don't know what the fuck you are talking about? Your posts are littered with these phrases: "what do I know", "from what little I know", "maybe it is, maybe it isn't". "what makes sense to me" ect. Dude you are a fucking nut job arguing with people when you don't know shit and the people you are arguing with, me, Zenking, Half Smoke, Mcap do know what the fuck we are talking about.

Here is a perfect example of you just making some shit up out of the blue: "If you are at the table with the largest bettor it seems like they're going to be paying attention to the count. The count is the labor intensive part. When you are reviewing one guy you're going to be reviewing the rest of the bettors".


This may seem logical to you, someone who has no clue but it is NOT how an evaluation works. And evaluation is done by computer on a specific player. There is NO labor intensive part. The pit will call upstairs and say "run an evaluation on player in seat 4. If you are in seat 5 you are no more at risk that someone on the other side of the casino. So throw what seems logical to you out the window....you are as usual 100% wrong!

Now I know what to do and not do to not trigger an evaluation or minimize the chances. One such rule is to not be the biggest bettor at the table. Another is to not spread through different colors (if possible). You completely made up that I spread green to black. That was when I played the local circuit. On the strip at $100 minimum tables I spread black period. And my minimum bet isn't even $100. I spread down to that in negative counts. That is called spreading both ways. Do you have any idea what that means? It makes it much harder to actually see the spread. And much less likely an evaluation will be triggered.

And finally, in the event that an evaluation (done by computer, not a person) is triggered, I usually know or have figured it out. At a game moving slowly as the full tables on weekends do, such an evaluation will take minimum 45 minutes. They have to see the count rise and go back to the shuffle and sometime waiting for the count to rise can take several shoes. (30-45 minutes) If you exit at the shuffle after showing max bet, there is very little chance they have the info they need before you have exited. And playing unrated, the partial evaluation is trash. It isn't held over until the next time you sit down and hand over your card, because you don't hand over a card.

Now I am done with you. You are talking shit you have no fucking clue about. You have even admitted that I am an expert in BJ (your words) and now you who has more than proven you don't know what you are talking about, are sitting there arguing with the expert (by your own admission). Dude, that is like the fucking definition of an idiot!! What the fuck is the matter with you? To steal a phrase from Jdaewoo, you are fucking retarded!

PS. You really should stop your private communications with Dawg. He is making you look like as big an idiot as he is.

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Dude - I can readily say if I don't know what I am talking about. You not only can not do that you are quick to absolutely invent reality on things you don't understand.

That is the difference between smart people and those not. SMart people in general have the capability to evaluate themselves. You don't. You know so little about so much you think people can count 3 tables at once, break bones on tables, hit 100k jackpots on the freeplay but no one else has ever heard of it happening, and so much other stuff. You just double-down on it all your lies.

I was a fool and thought you were an expert at one point too and repeated your foolishness. There is no reason to believe anything you said. Like MaxPen said ..

I didn't say you spread from green to black and that detail doesn't particularly matter IMO. I was just using it to narrate how I see it working. We both have an idea how a security room would work. If they look at the count and evaluation - what would blind them to the rest of the table? Why would a computer take 45 minutes to evaluate a table?

You realize they record the video and can rewind and such. How do you think these modern high-limit security rooms operate? JUst with a camera moving forward?

Why wouldn't they have the computer evaluate past footage? That makes absolutely no sense that they can only do it in real time.

There are reasons we use technology. seriously.

If they evaluating the count they're probably paying attention to the whole table.

Anyway, your take on how it work just doesn't compute for me. Tell me I don't know what i'm talkng about sure but you can't explain why they need to do all this in real time. If a computer can determine the count then you rewind security footage 30 minutes or whatever then evaluate faster than real time. Why would it take "at minimum 45 minutes"? I mean you may have read that somewhere but I can't imagine the systems being that backwards if a computer can evaluate to begin with. If a person has to evaluate the count - they perhaps. If a computer does it - then it makes absolutely 0 sense to not go back in time and start the evaluation. A computer could evaluate when the count is really high and really low. You go sample bet sizes at those times... it shouldn't take that long. It is fascinating that they seem to be using tech from a lolng time ago.

Weird story at one point i worked at a big name computer company and the R&D lab. They had a bid for hardware to store video on drives for fast access. That was 25 years ago.

Ok, rereading what you say you're saying the pit specifically calls in the evaluation on a certain seat. *THAT* at least is a good reason. Finally ... you said something that makes sense. I can now understand how your anti-OSN strategy could work. If security only runs the evaluation on one person at a time and it is always instigated by the pit - then sure your strategy at least makes sense.

Instead you want to troll and just go on and on about nonsensical insults. Elsewher you play victim. If you want to have serious conversations then try it.

If you're done with me you should never have started a new thread, doofus.

This has 0 to do with Mdawg, not sure why he is so deep in your head. Sad.

I am heading out very shortly. I just explained it all to you in as great of detail as i can. That you continue to say "it doesn't compute" is on you not me.

Dude, frankly I just handed you your ass. Took down all you fucking troll points and explained how things really work. And to no one's surprise, you weren't man enough to come back admit you were wrong and issue something along the lines of an apology.

If you still can'6t figure out that I just handed you your ass, ask yourself this? Why have your fellow trolls gone silent? They can't even muster up support for you.

If you need to hear it from someone you know and trust, ask mickey. You met him or are friends with him or something right? Ask him. I know he doesn't like to get too involved but I am pretty sure he will tell you I just took you to school, debunking each and every one of your trolling points, explaining how things really work.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am heading out very shortly. I just explained it all to you in as great of detail as i can. That you continue to say "it doesn't compute" is on you not me.

Dude, frankly I just handed you your ass. Took down all you fucking troll points and explained how things really work. And to no one's surprise, you weren't man enough to come back admit you were wrong and issue something along the lines of an apology.

If you still can'6t figure out that I just handed you your ass, ask yourself this? Why have your fellow trolls gone silent? They can't even muster up support for you.

If you need to hear it from someone you know and trust, ask mickey. You met him or are friends with him or something right? Ask him. I know he doesn't like to get too involved but I am pretty sure he will tell you I just took you to school, debunking each and every one of your trolling points, explaining how things really work.

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No, you have little clue. If I was a sharp operator and in control of the security stack I'd rewind the cam feed until whatever time I deemed appropriate. I'd have the computer compute the highest and lowest count. (Assuming a computer can do it unaided without a human. Probably not that hard with AI these days. You have tons of training data.) Then from there you look at a few key points from when the count is both high and low. Then just see what bet sizes are for anyone at the table. In theory you could automate the whole thing. If humans can see chip sizes with a camera then surely computers can. And you'd find pretty much any counter within 5 minutes of labor.

This is far beyond what most any casinos need but you're apparently not betting green as you said you aren't Which puts your minimum bet at 100? Or did you mean to say you go into green on negative counts? Now you make me want to look up EV vs your spread.

I mean who knows - neither you or I knows much about MGM or Circa security (as examples). It all takes skilled people to do these things and many casinos would not find it worth it. Maybe the software was never advanced far enough but somehow computers can count? Oh well. APs always want to know how it works up there. One thing for certain is the smaller joints that you don't mess with are the ones that are going to be more traditional and weaker. The big boys where you exclusively play are going to be far far far more likely to really have their shit together.

Regardless, pit bosses doing things in a specific way which is a holdover from forever ago isn't surprising. All you've done is clarify some thing after I badgered you enough.

Kewl, you didn't "hand me my ass". You actually engaged in a useful conversation where you told someone something that wasn't known/understood to them and can explain your purported narrative. But so many of your narratives are lol. At least this one I can make sense and it is thus reasonable.

I'm still curious how many blackjack tables there are that have people betting 500 or whatever and so and you can just hang out by them. And they're prone to getting up and leaving. Next time I'm in LV I'll have to see for myself. Just seems like this number would be small enough that you'd negative many of your advantages. That is the crux of my belief and still valid.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

The "I only play short sessions NEVER stay at the table long" works only in conjunction with sugar daddy ploys, playing for cover and just staying at the table long enough to work the male prostitution angle. Also works when don't actually play just pretend to play.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

Can't be a 20 year blackjack pro without entries. Unless of course it's a side gig while running around town looking for sugar daddies and turning tricks.....RIP

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I'm rather certain he has money from something he feels shame over

Most likely a prostitute

Pretending to be some hero AP gives him purpose and a sense of accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by seedvalue

You play some on the side but your sugar daddies pay the bills. Fact

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I actually play while UNKewlJ just writes about it in plainly generic terms and there is no way to predict how long a session will be before an advantage situation arises. Could happen soon could take a very long time. The UNKewl fable about never playing for very long over decades blows the whole nonsense right at the gate. Every single UNKewl post emphasizes this theory (UNKewl fable) about how she has never played a long session keeps moving as the "key to longevity." It's just a fable she concocted and stuck to because there is little or no actual play, just regurgitation of fabled theory.

Eventually of course we might see a revised fable of "Actually I DO play long sessions just never mentioned it before," but that's the nature of this lying chameleon.

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Originally Posted by ZenKinG

Here goes the KJ fraud talking in such a simple tone about how AP works and blackjack. Just how you write about AP makes me cringe, it's almost like you never played a hand in your life. You say all the right things and explain blackjack in such a simple sense when describing the game, it's like you're speaking to a 5 year old about how counting works.

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Originally Posted by ZenKinG

Just the way he writes stuff like "Thats not how blackjack card counting works". Like who the fuck talks like that other than someone that never played or has played almost nothing and first getting into it. Its cringy as hell. Put two and two together. No ones ever met this guy, probably some retard in india posting on the forums looking for attention creating this persona online. What else is new in a community and industry full of degens, scammers, and pathological liars.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

kewlJ has also been caught in a lot of lies over time, both on this forum and elsewhere. Therefore, it is unclear if he really makes much (or anything) playing blackjack these days.

kewlJ is basically the Boy Who Cried Wolf of these AP forums. He has lied so many times that it's impossible to believe any stories he tells.

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This retard needs to get over it and fuck a guy.

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Originally Posted by jdaewoo

This retard needs to get over it and fuck a guy.

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He has.....regularly

It is kind of funny to see the trolls jump out of bed and start trolling with comments about shit they know nothing about. I guess I should cut Acct some slack as he doesn't play blackjack and so he doesn't know much about what he is talking about. My only question is why is he still arguing and insisting then? And Dawg, while he plays, is a losing player (except in his fiction stories). So he doesn't have to worry about evaluations and backoffs and other counter-measure.

Just as a courtesy, I will clear some things up about what I previously shared about how I play, since they clowns are conflating everything. Wont matter as they will say whatever the fuck they want anyway. For 10 years here in Vegas, I played what I call the local circuit. That would be casinos like the 6 Stations casinos, Fiestas (now closed), Boyd properties, South Point, Silverton, a couple downtown properties and several just off strip properties, like Palms, Westgate, OYO (hooter). A few even smaller places mixed in but the group mentioned were the jist of it. You will note no strip properties for various reasons, although there was one that was in my primary rotation.

So when playing these properties, my max bet was in the $400 range, staying below the key threshold of $500. You also couldn't go much higher than that at these type places during the week or you would really stand out. Now the play style as I often shared was very short sessions. You leave at the shuffle after showing max bet (maybe 2 cycles on double deck), which almost makes it impossible for surveillance to gather the information they need in the time you are at the table. About the time they are seeing your spread, you have left or are leaving.

Now about 5 years ago, in part due to some mistakes from me, I found several entries in OSN. I was getting more backoffs and heat and it wasn't going away. I decided I needed to completely re-invent how I played for a period until things cooled down. Maybe a year or two (it has been 4+ now). So I started playing bigger (strip) casinos, during busier times, playing higher stakes, but ONLY at tables with other players playing the same or bigger stakes. I call this playing in the shadow of....

Playing slower games during busier times means you aren't playing the VERY short sessions like I was before. BUT YOU DONT NEED TO as it takes longer for an evaluation. I guess this is where I should explain a little more about the evaluation process since these clowns have no clue how it works. (and why would they, one doesn't play blackjack and one is a losing player that the casino love and aren't running evaluations on :D)

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First, accountinQ mentioned evaluating the whole table at once. While that technology is certainly available, when casinos did a version of this, during the Mind play fiasco, the end ruling prohibited them from doing so in real times. They had to implement a 20-30 round delay to avoid the ability to cheat by then feeding the count information down to the floor to shuffle away the good counts. So it is illegal to do what accountinQ suggested. Do some still do it? That I can't say.

So the way the evaluation works is they evaluate one player at a times comparing wagers (betting more) to the count. But it isn't so simple as count rises, player increases his wager...BOOM, he is a counter. Many other players, like players chasing losses or players parlaying wins raise wagers, and the casinos don't want to wrongly back them up. So the 'check" to this is most casino want to see a second cycle of the player raising with the count. I rarely give them that second cycle.

Now what these nitwits have jumped on, thinking a discrepancy is the short sessions. Playing the local circuit, this all happened more quickly. I needed to be out after 30 minutes, to be sure I was gone before they got what they needed. Playing busier times with the game moving much slower (and the information collecting process moving much slower), the whole process is much slower. So the sessions aren't as quick. It can take several shoes before the count even moves at all and the process begins!

So there you have it girls (dawg and account). Good try but wrong again....not that it stops you from arguing what you don't know about.

One other small detail. I said evaluation come from the floor, with the pit calling up to trigger the evaluation. That is the most common procedure. But some casinos it is initiated upstairs in surveillance (or what acctQ calls the security room :D).

It is another one of those things that a real player learns.....makes it his business to figure out and learn. And it isn't that hard to figure out. When calling for an evaluation someone in the pit picks up the phone to call upstairs. Now everytime someone picks up a phone they aren't calling for an evaluation, there are chip fills and various other reasons the go to the phone. But these guys aren't all that subtle. When they call for an evaluation they usually are looking right at the table and player. Maybe because they need to say Table 14, seat 5. But, I often wonder if they even realize they are doing this. :D

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Originally Posted by MDawg

I pointed out the contradictions in his story, more than once long ago:
Part of where the UNKewl one keeps tripping himself up is in contradictions. He talks about how he barely wins $50. average in a session. At other times talks about how he buys in for so little chips - in the region of $150. - $250. - that he draws no attention to himself. Then he talks about how he declined to start another session because he was $3000. short of the "mandatory" $7000. he needs to play. Very contradictory.

I also pointed out that his entire fictionalized blackjack story fit too neatly into a "I won exactly what was expected" - someone else, I believe it was AccountInQuestion, mentioned that someone playing like that, unrated, no consistent play, couldn't even know exactly what his handle (amount passed over the circle) was, to begin to figure out what was "expected" over a period of many years.

Well, now others too know that it was all fiction. All neatly packaged into something he read about, and assumed.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Everything and anything he has ever said has come into question and years of his forum adventures in BJ and life have beeen labeled as fiction.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

You leave at the shuffle after showing max bet (maybe 2 cycles on double deck), which almost makes it impossible for surveillance to gather the information they need in the time you are at the table. About the time they are seeing your spread, you have left or are leaving.

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You have left, or are leaving, or you go play VP rated for 6 hours, accumulating or cashing in millions of dollars of freeplay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I needed to be out after 30 minutes, to be sure I was gone before they got what they needed.

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Unless you were thirsty, in which case being gone before they got what they needed was not important...

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I had to wait half an hour for a waitress and another half hour to get the damn 6 or 8 ounce water

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

I pointed out the contradictions in his story, more than once long ago:
Part of where the UNKewl one keeps tripping himself up is in contradictions. He talks about how he barely wins $50. average in a session. At other times talks about how he buys in for so little chips - in the region of $150. - $250. - that he draws no attention to himself. Then he talks about how he declined to start another session because he was $3000. short of the "mandatory" $7000. he needs to play. Very contradictory.

I also pointed out that his entire fictionalized blackjack story fit too neatly into a "I won exactly what was expected" - someone else, I believe it was AccountInQuestion, mentioned that someone playing like that, unrated, no consistent play, couldn't even know exactly what his handle (amount passed over the circle) was, to begin to figure out what was "expected" over a period of many years.

Well, now others too know that it was all fiction. All neatly packaged into something he read about, and assumed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Everything and anything he has ever said has come into question and years of his forum adventures in BJ and life have been labeled as fiction.

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dawg, I am not going to answer every question that YOU a recreational type (higher limit, but recreational type) LOSING player can't figure out. I share what I want to share.

But I will generally state that one of the big no-no's for a card counter is running out of money mid cycle. We work hard to get to a shoe or situation with a strong favorable count (Max bet count) and the last thing you want to do is run out of money with a strong plus count (strong +EV).

I have a general rule that I don't want start a session with less than 15 x max bet. 20 is even better. And the reason for this is when playing a shoe game, if the count goes positive early there can be many rounds played at max bet. There also is the rarer but devastating situation where you split a hand 3 times with multiple double down. You can lose 8 max bets on that single round. So you have to have adequate BR to not get caught and lose out on a PLUS count (+EV).

I know this doesn't effect a LOSING player like you as you would just take out a marker. REAL card counters don't use markers. We don't want to surrender the info required to the casino like that.

So each time you mention taking a marker, you confirm to the real players that you are no winning player.

Dawg, you really should have stuck to bacarát for this fiction/fantasy story. Your first couple years you only talked about bacarát, but then you switched to some blackjack because of me. I know it....you know it. And in doing so, you have exposed yourself many times. And not just to real blackjack AP/professional players. Everyone that is a real professional LEVEL player immediately spotted these things that expose you. Things that a losing recreation player can do, but no real winning player ever would.

It always comes back to I don't know who you think you are fooling with your long running fantasy, but really I don't think you are fooling a single member of any forum. Maybe you should have stuck to the 'writers forum' where everyone wasn't a real gambler and knowledgeable about gambling. Your James Bond story might have worked there. But it doesn't work on any forum with real players and Aps.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

You have left, or are leaving, or you go play VP rated for 6 hours, accumulating or cashing in millions of dollars of freeplay.

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And the trolls just keep TRYING. :cool:

This is precisely why my partner handled the VP machine play, or most of it anyway, so there could be no tracking me to a machine and information.

On the occasions I handled some of the machine play, I rarely mixed blackjack and machine play at the same casino on the same day. Admittedly, several times I did mix, but would separate the two plays with lunch or a period of time, so if anyone was tracking me, they would have had to really put some effort into it. And if I did mix the two with say a break for lunch in between, it would be because the blackjack session was rather uneventful. I would NEVER go play a machine in the same day after a BJ session that was "eventful" and might draw some attention.

You people have played your games for years....decades now. I have MORE than proven over and over, what I do. And still you can't accept it and troll. At some point I would think you would decide "yeah, I guess the guy is what he says. I don't like him, but he knows what he is talking about".

But that isn't the troll way is it? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have a general run that I don't want start a session with less than 15 x max bet. 20 is even better.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

My max bet is between $800 and $1200

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This means that you are sitting down with between $12K and $24K to start a session.

And that kind of opening stack keeps you under the radar?

How many casinos are you hitting each night?

Are you laying out cash, or pulling out chips from your inventory?

Either way you'll need to be carrying up to $120K in cash and chips to play at 5 tables per visit.

LOL. Is my math correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have a general run that I don't want start a session with less than 15 x max bet. 20 is even better.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

My max bet is between $800 and $1200

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This means that you are sitting down with between $12K and $24K to start a session.

And that kind of opening stack keeps you under the radar?

How many casinos are you hitting each night?

Are you laying out cash, or pulling out chips from your inventory?

Either way you'll need to be carrying up to $120K in cash and chips to play at 5 tables per visit.

LOL. Is my math correct?

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I am NOT going to answer these kinds of identifying questions Dip Shit Belly.

But congratulations on being able to do some grade school math. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

This is precisely why my partner handled the VP machine play, or most of it anyway, so there could be no tracking me to a machine and information.

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But your partner was using your card (among others) to play, correct?

And he would still need to put more than 30 minutes play on the machine, right?

How did you get to the next stop if he was playing VP for hours after you exited your game?

In MOST cases my partner was playing machines rated, on a couple accounts WHILE I was playing blackjack unrated. What is so hard to figure out about that?

And yes of course there were times....many actually, that our plays didn't end exactly the same time and there would be a few minutes of waiting for the other.

This shit seems pretty obvious to me, I don't know why you are having so much trouble with such simple things. You just keep searching and searching for something that isn't there.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am NOT going to answer these kinds of identifying questions

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My questions use info you've provided.

You already answered them by "sharing" your experiences.

That's what's so laugh-out-loud funny...your claim that putting a $24K bankroll on the felt goes unnoticed, especially when you bolt in 30min without touching most of your stack.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

there would be a few minutes of waiting for the other.

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You just wrote that you needed to be out of the casino in 30 minutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I needed to be out after 30 minutes

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That's not enough time to run enough of a wager through multiple cards to earn millions in FP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

your claim that putting a $24K bankroll on the felt goes unnoticed.

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LOL. THIS statement shows what a complete idiot you are.

Why on earth would somebody sit down and plop their entire BR on the felt? OMG! you are an idiot.

My BR actually consists of chips and cash, not just cash as I have shared many times. (Chip inventory). I like to enter the game with just a handful of chips. Cash doesn't make an appearance until the count has risen. And it is possible if you have won with the initial chips you entered with, you NEVER have to go to cash.

BUT if you do have to buy in for more (cash), that is fine. just looks like a player that lost and is buying in for more. And if your wagers are a little bigger after that cash buy-in that is very natural too. A player betting a little bigger (chasing loses).

No matter how many buy-ins I may make they are always relatively small.as in just a couple max bets.

Let me ask you this Belly. What do you think it says if a player were to sit down and buy in for a large amount, lets say $8000 and then first wager is a waiting bet of $100 or $200. Do you think that is natural? What THAT says to the pit is this guy is going to be betting bigger at some later point. Couldn't be a bigger "tell" if you tattooed 'card counter' on your forehead.

I am not going to answer anymore fishing questions from you belly. You need to accept that I know what the fuck I am talking about and what the fuck I am doing. EVERY single thing I do has a reason and is planned out. NOTHING happens by accident. Preparation is one of the two keys to success. Success occurs when preparation meets opportunity.

That is not mine, but something worth remembering and implementing in life.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Why on earth would somebody sit down and plop their entire BR on the felt?

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Have you ever seen a player draw a marker at the table?

Don't all the chips get passed to him on the table?

Why are you asking about your entire BR? Do you carry your entire BR around with you?

Whatever you bet is laid on the felt by you.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

if you do have to buy in for more (cash), that is fine. just looks like a player that lost and is buying in for more.

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Doesn't buying in for cash draw attention? Isn't the cash buy-in announced?

Do they announce your chip stack when you sit down with chips?

Don't they see and know when you take ratholed chips out to play during a hand, or between hands?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

What do you think it says if a player were to sit down and buy in for a large amount, lets say $8000 and then first wager is a waiting bet of $100 or $200. Do you think that is natural? What THAT says to the pit is this guy is going to be betting bigger at some later point. Couldn't be a bigger "tell" if you tattooed 'card counter' on your forehead

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Of course that is natural. Players draw markers and start small all the time. Players buy in for 10K and start small too. That doesn't identify them as a counter off the bat.

But if they refuse to play rated or identify themselves, then that would be a tell.

What the fuck are you talking about tattooed on your forehead? You're a fraud.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Doesn't buying in for cash draws attention? Isn't the cash buy-in announced?

Do they announce your chip stack when you sit down with chips?

Don't they see and know when you take ratholed chips out to play during a hand, or between hands?

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It is true that a chip inventory and entering with a handful of chips isn't as effective at higher limits as it is when betting green, as the pit is trying to keep track of the rack.

A player sitting down with chips does NOT mean he ratholed chips. :D Many player just switch tables, for whatever reason (some voodoo). They take their chips with them and sit down and play.

I always suspected you were associated with the casino industry. Every so often you prove it because you have the typical casino mentality, not to mention anti-AP attitude. Totally explains you despising APs that win by playing with an advantage and pretty much "promote" gamblers like dawg and Singer. Those are the kind of players the casinos LOVE.

Now I am going to watch a little football before I head out to dinner later. Feel free to troll among yourselves.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

A player sitting down with chips does NOT mean he ratholed chips.

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When a player sits down with chips, the pit notes how much he has on the table...especially black and above.

If he starts pulling out black+ chips from his pocket, they note that too.

He may not have put the chips in his pocket to deceive the pit, but if a pocket is the rathole, then chips in the pocket are ratholed.

When he starts pulling chips out of his pocket to increase his bet, then he is using ratholed chips.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The entire forum knows you have an issue with pathological lying.

you can't help but insert fibs into your postings

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Originally Posted by MDawg

UNKewlJ constantly contradicts herself on both bet amounts, and buy ins. Impossible to buy in for thousands in cash anyway anywhere near that figure she has mentioned before of $8000. without having full personal identifying information on file at the casino cage. As buy in nears the thousands, pit bosses will send the player to the cage. This would have happened everywhere by now, if UNKewlJ's story were anywhere near factual.

Alternatively, the MaxPen, A.Wolf and other APs witnessed UNKewl play for mere red and green chips, would not have resulted in mandatory KYC verification.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

A player sitting down with chips does NOT mean he ratholed chips.

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When a player sits down with chips, the pit notes how much he has on the table...especially black and above.

If he starts pulling out black+ chips from his pocket, they note that too.

He may not have put the chips in his pocket to deceive the pit, but if a pocket is the rathole, then chips in the pocket are ratholed.

When he starts pulling chips out of his pocket to increase his bet, then he is using ratholed chips.

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Spoken just like a casino employee, with casino mentality.

Ratholing is an advantage play technique, used to make winning sessions appear smaller and losing sessions appear bigger. It is a technique that I don't recommend and only use myself in very specific circumstances, because consequences can be worse that the benefit.

A non-AP, regular player can NOT be ratholing. If a regular player openly puts away some chips into his pockets as incentive to not play them, that is NOT rat-holing. Only a casino or someone who works for the casinos would equate the two.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

UNKewlJ constantly contradicts herself on both bet amounts, and buy ins. Impossible to buy in for thousands in cash anyway anywhere near that figure she has mentioned before of $8000. without having full personal identifying information on file at the casino cage. As buy in nears the thousands, pit bosses will send the player to the cage. This would have happened everywhere by now, if UNKewlJ's story were anywhere near factual.

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GOOD try dawg. REALLY good try. Good boy....you deserve a dog treat and pat on the head. :D

THIS is exactly why we don't plop down $8000 on the table as coach belly tried to say. We will make numerous smaller buy-ins, in combination with chip entry (chip inventory) instead. And yes, if you make a few of them, a player will need to present some ID. Better to do so at the cage than table, as it involves an extra step for casinos to put everything together.

Look, not EVERY session raises suspicions to where the casino is trying to identify the player. Most go off without anything that is viewed as abnormal or suspicious in term of the player being an AP. And the ones that do, well all we try to do is minimize those problematic sessions or incidents.

Additionally, there are ways around some of these things, but I will not get into those. Almost every "problem" has a solution or work-around. If there weren't a soution or "workaround" there would be no APs. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

sniff sniff what is that I smell.

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AND THIS is also where Dawgs entire fabricated story fails. Playing rated along with all the casino/government paperwork involved in playing higher stakes, casinos would know exactly what dawg has won/lost and they would NEVER allow anywhere close to a player winning the amounts he claims (Tens of millions of dollars) over the long length of time (7 years) that he claims. That is all just fantasy-fiction.

ready to amend your little bullshit fable yet Dawg?

Look players can win or beat the casinos long-term. But we have to work at it. I explain some of the techniques involved in that. Dawg just tells a fairytale or winning bizarrely claiming the casinos don't care.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

sniff sniff what is that I smell.

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Probably your own stinky smelly Arab ass. Smells a lot like the intermural fields over at UNLV the day after the rodeo left town (today).

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Originally Posted by MDawg

It doesn't take much to trigger a

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Originally Posted by AccountInQuestion

10x multiplier response

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from this weak willed mentally ill one.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

In fairness to MDawg, he has definitely proven more about himself than I understand you to have done.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

The only time I ever used a second account was a couple times on forums that I was not able to post at with my usual name, and I had something specific I wanted to share/warn about like casino cheating. And even then, I quickly let it be known who I was. I never tried to hide or deceive anyone with a sock puppet second account.

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Originally Posted by Tasha

Oh God, that's bad. He as Magister said,"Your guy Magister didn't even get into that, as I certainly would have." YIKES! :eek:

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

You literally talked about your Magister sock account as a third person.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

At some point you will realize you're dealing with a compulsive liar.

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