Bob Dietz' Coming Appeararance On PokerFraudAlert Radio

While all this history of sports betting is fascinating, we are now wasting out time in this redietz thread. Bob Dietz is never going to do an interview where he has to answer any questions about his 40 year tout operation that he can't answer. The guy doesn't know the math behind what he claims he was doing as evident by his bizarre statement about EV not being applicable to sports betting. And he doesn't understand Kelly betting, that he would have needed to implement, instead claiming Kelly doesn't work or apply to sports betting. In short, he doesn't understand the math of what he is claiming and thinks the math doesn't even apply to sports betting.

Last night Dietz claimed that axelwolf being involved was a new last second development. That was going to be an attempt by him to move the goal posts and serve as an excuse to wiggle out. Only problem is, as I pointed out Axelwolf has been involved and stated he wanted to be involved since day 1, page 1 of this thread/discussion.

Dietz wants to replace axelwolf and his tough questions with his friend Dennison, some dude that makes movies that no one knows or cares about. :D:D

THAT is Dietz's Bizzaro world. Shades of the Seinfeld episode "Bizzaro World"

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

While all this history of sports betting is fascinating, we are now wasting out time in this redietz thread. Bob Dietz is never going to do an interview where he has to answer any questions about his 40 year tout operation that he can't answer. The guy doesn't know the math behind what he claims he was doing as evident by his bizarre statement about EV and doesn't understand Kelly betting, that he would have needed to implement, instead claiming Kelly doesn't work or apply to sports betting.

Last night Dietz claimed that axelwolf being involved was a new last second development. That was going to be an attempt by him to move the goal posts and serve as an excuse to wiggle out. Only problem is, as I pointed out Axelwolf has been involved and stated he wanted to be involved since day 1, pay 1 of this thread/discussion.

Dietz wants to replace axelwolf and his tough questions with his friend Dennison, some dude that makes movies that no one knows or cares about. :D:D

THAT is Dietz's Bizzaro world. Shades of the Seinfeld episode "Bizzaro World"

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No, Dennison wouldn't be asking any questions or even breathing loud. I was just going to ask him to sit in because (1) he has broadcasting/film experience, (2) he said he did a terrible live interview last time he did one, and (3) he could profile me and possibly pitch me to Joey Merlino's podcast if he thinks I pass muster. That's it. I'm interested in getting an evaluation of my presentation from a professional TV/Film guy.

I don't know who taught the KewlJ(s) how to read, but it wasn't Villanova. They lie about every single thing they post. It's a little ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I think one of the problems with Kim Lee's summary is that he uses the word "sports" as opposed to other words. Kind of like saying there are very few "surgeons-who-can-operate-on-every-bone-and-organ" in the world. Not terribly surprising, but how significant is that observation?

The distinction I'm making is one of definition, which -- as in most cases -- the common fallacy is to mis-define behaviors and actions, usually in a way that (1) simplifies things in a definitional way, (2) amplifies the ego and alleged abilities of the person involved a la Leonardo Da APs, but in this case Leonardo Da "Sports Bettors," and (3) benefits the sports books (as always).

Another analogy is that successful handicappers treat "sports betting" more like the Eskimos treat "snow." In other words, and I mean literally, the Eskimos have more words for snowfall and don't lump all the varieties together just because that's the way Westerners see "snow." Translating all the Eskimo definitions of snow into a couple (1) simplifies things, (2) makes the people who have to deal with their two definitions of "snow" confident they know it all and (3) benefits those who sell snow shovels.

I know Boz has a pretty good handle on what I'm talking about; not sure "APs" have the humility or precision required.

And I'm not even broaching the subject of addiction. Specialization may retard addiction to launching funds on variegated events that really have nothing in common. A college football specialist, such as myself, has 220 days out of the year where's he's betting almost nothing. That does tend to immunize one to some degree from many behavioral pitfalls. Sports books would prefer a different kind of behavior.

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Yeah, see this. We are going to keep getting more of this and no movement towards an interview. Bob Dietz's bizzarro world.

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Originally Posted by redietz

No, Dennison wouldn't be asking any questions or even breathing loud. I was just going to ask him to sit in because (1) he has broadcasting/film experience, (2) he said he did a terrible live interview last time he did one, and (3) he could profile me and possibly pitch me to Joey Merlino's podcast if he thinks I pass muster. That's it. I'm interested in getting an evaluation of my presentation from a professional TV/Film guy.

I don't know who taught the KewlJ(s) how to read, but it wasn't Villanova. They lie about every single thing they post. It's a little ridiculous.

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And this! (More Dietz's bizarro world). He wants to bring a filmmaker to what Dan Druff specified was an audio only interview. :D

Add in more Dietz madness and obsession with his name dropping of Mobster Joey Merlino and his podcast that no one cares about. Just gets weirder and weirder around here.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

While all this history of sports betting is fascinating, we are now wasting out time in this redietz thread. Bob Dietz is never going to do an interview where he has to answer any questions about his 40 year tout operation that he can't answer. The guy doesn't know the math behind what he claims he was doing as evident by his bizarre statement about EV and doesn't understand Kelly betting, that he would have needed to implement, instead claiming Kelly doesn't work or apply to sports betting.

Last night Dietz claimed that axelwolf being involved was a new last second development. That was going to be an attempt by him to move the goal posts and serve as an excuse to wiggle out. Only problem is, as I pointed out Axelwolf has been involved and stated he wanted to be involved since day 1, pay 1 of this thread/discussion.

Dietz wants to replace axelwolf and his tough questions with his friend Dennison, some dude that makes movies that no one knows or cares about. :D:D

THAT is Dietz's Bizzaro world. Shades of the Seinfeld episode "Bizzaro World"

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No, Dennison wouldn't be asking any questions or even breathing loud. I was just going to ask him to sit in because (1) he has broadcasting/film experience, (2) he said he did a terrible live interview last time he did one, and (3) he could profile me and possibly pitch me to Joey Merlino's podcast if he thinks I pass muster. That's it. I'm interested in getting an evaluation of my presentation from a professional TV/Film guy.

I don't know who taught the KewlJ(s) how to read, but it wasn't Villanova. They lie about every single thing they post. It's a little ridiculous.

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1 and 2 don't really explain why he needs to be there. I guess you don't realize but these are recorded for people who are not there in real time. That is what Dennison would need to pitch you.

The person who needs to bow out is the sociopathic liar with nothing to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

On these forums, usually there's fire where there's smoke. You have lied so many times about so many things (and not just on here) that you need to just own up to it and admit that you've had a lot of problems telling the truth on AP forums.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I have the proof.

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How much will it cost me for you to post whatever proof you say that you have?

How about this?...after you post your proof, I will post proof that you sent that message to me.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

The person who needs to bow out is the sociopathic liar with nothing to contribute.

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Why are YOU in this discussion. The only time you are involved with sports is when you are comped tickets to a Golden Knights playoff game by a casino because you are a huge LOSING gambler.

And maybe you know about camel racing. When the discussion veers in that direction, we will call you. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Funny to see the guy always crying about "homophobia" here is actually the biggest bigot on VCT.

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Dog, You fucking retard, you are going to attempt to even make a case about me and bigotry, with ALL the shit you have said and continue to say daily about me?

You are one fucked up dude. You make Singer look almost normal. :D

....well not normal, but next to you, he is less deranged. Plus he is like 90 now, so you can almost forgive his dementia and derangement.

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Originally Posted by SoxFan

Gotta say that personally I find the kewl-J to be a vile, despicable, repugnant little worm.

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Originally Posted by jdaewoo

Now, why isn't this retard out winning 25% [it's 25%! not 80% - at least get it right] of his tie bets?

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Some losers obsess about poker, or blackjack, or whatever. When they lose all their money, they go on the internet and brag about winning. I shouldn't waste more time on this. But I would book happily book the major sports action of anyone on this board. Only one person brags about their success. But they won't even do an interview. Heck, they won't even admit how little they bet. Big hat, no cattle.

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again. But I did not need to organize it. The only efficient way I can see this working is to grade a batch of picks each week at verifiable sportsbook numbers. Or one of you could get an agent account offshore and let the software do the work. I don't intend to waste any more time with foolishness here and Rob Singer challenges that never materialize. Bye.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

While all this history of sports betting is fascinating, we are now wasting out time in this redietz thread. Bob Dietz is never going to do an interview where he has to answer any questions about his 40 year tout operation that he can't answer. The guy doesn't know the math behind what he claims he was doing as evident by his bizarre statement about EV and doesn't understand Kelly betting, that he would have needed to implement, instead claiming Kelly doesn't work or apply to sports betting.

Last night Dietz claimed that axelwolf being involved was a new last second development. That was going to be an attempt by him to move the goal posts and serve as an excuse to wiggle out. Only problem is, as I pointed out Axelwolf has been involved and stated he wanted to be involved since day 1, pay 1 of this thread/discussion.

Dietz wants to replace axelwolf and his tough questions with his friend Dennison, some dude that makes movies that no one knows or cares about. :D:D

THAT is Dietz's Bizzaro world. Shades of the Seinfeld episode "Bizzaro World"

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No, Dennison wouldn't be asking any questions or even breathing loud. I was just going to ask him to sit in because (1) he has broadcasting/film experience, (2) he said he did a terrible live interview last time he did one, and (3) he could profile me and possibly pitch me to Joey Merlino's podcast if he thinks I pass muster. That's it. I'm interested in getting an evaluation of my presentation from a professional TV/Film guy.

I don't know who taught the KewlJ(s) how to read, but it wasn't Villanova. They lie about every single thing they post. It's a little ridiculous.

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1 and 2 don't really explain why he needs to be there. I guess you don't realize but these are recorded for people who are not there in real time. That is what Dennison would need to pitch you.

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He's a director (or assistant director). He could see how I react in real time, physically. I assume this VCT interview is audio only. Any interview in the future would likely be video, including Merlino if I got a gig. And including Munchkin's podcast, if they do any more. So I think evaluating my physical presence and reactions in real time has significant value going forward. I mean, this guy is an actor and film director. He could coach me on voice tone, discipline, physical movement or lack thereof, and so on. So his presence hurts nothing and has value to me. I don't even know if he can do it. But I'll ask him tonight, and when a date gets pinned down I'll see if he can sit in.

Am I misinterpreting anything? I thought the value to me was pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I have the proof.

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How much will it cost me for you to post whatever proof you say that you have?

How about this?...after you post your proof, I will post proof that you sent that message to me.

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Without even looking, I'm fairly positive I didn't send you a PM with my email address. I don't care what proof you claim to have or what game you are playing, I only care about legitimate proof that I didn't make an honest attempt to send him my email address via PM here. Dan can look into this, and I'll post whatever proof I have without any bets or costs to anyone. It's a dumb argument, as I admit I made an honest mistake and somehow replied to myself when attempting to send Red my email address.

Dude, Noone fucking cares about this goofy shit with Dennison (whoever the fuck that is) or Merlino!

Stop acting like a fucking moron and set up a day and time for Dan Druff to interview you, with Axelwolf available to ask questions, or just shut the fuck up and go away.

Noone gives a shit about all this other delusional shit you keep deflecting to.

As Axelwolf said: "shit or get off the pot", but stop jerking everyone around with your crazy ass shit!

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

stop jerking everyone around with your crazy ass shit!

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

kewlJ, the problem is here that you can't cast yourself as a serious poster if you are going to tell major lies to back up other stories.

I will admit that I am very puzzled regarding what is the actual truth with you.

a lot of what you write could be total fiction. You're definitely someone who isn't adverse to lying on forums if it suits you to do so.

Had MaxPen not done his searching, we would probably still be reading long essays about the lawsuits, and how we are all fools to be doubting it.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Very well written summary, MDawg.

I enjoyed it.

I like how MaxPen called it kewlJ's "Newell moment". Hilarious.

I will admit that this never smelled quite right to me, and my personal belief at this point is that kewlJ made the whole thing up.

I don't think there was any incident which was lawsuit-worthy, which is why we got so many changing and bizarre versions of the same story.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

But I would book happily book the major sports action of anyone on this board.

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This reads like an empty gesture, in light of the fact that you are turning tail within the same post.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I don't intend to waste any more time with foolishness here...Bye.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

stop jerking everyone around with your crazy ass shit!

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Very well written summary, MDawg.

I enjoyed it.

I like how MaxPen called it kewlJ's "Newell moment". Hilarious.

I will admit that this never smelled quite right to me, and my personal belief at this point is that kewlJ made the whole thing up.

I don't think there was any incident which was lawsuit-worthy, which is why we got so many changing and bizarre versions of the same story.

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STOP Hijacking this thread, Dog you piece of shit! This isn't about you and your obsession with me. This thread is about redietz. It is his moment to shine (which he is failing miserably at).

MDog, you have a hundred other threads that you created and bump for the sole purpose of your continuing you obsessive trolling of me. Stop being such an asswipe.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Part of his mental illness is that he spend days writing about how so and so has been doing this or that while he has not when all the while, that's exactly what he has done in the past.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I only care about legitimate proof that I didn't make an honest attempt to send him my email address via PM here.

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And I only care about legitimate proof that you did send it.

Who claimed that they have proof that you didn't make an honest attempt to send it to redietz?

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

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Please, do tell. I figured out very quickly that DI was mostly BS. I have some good stories to tell about DI. We bough a 100% real craps table, an excaxt copy of a craps table being used in a major strip casino. 2 or 3 people might be able to eek out a small advadnatge given 100% dedication with owning a legit copy of a craps table that's being used in a casino. But it's not worth the time and effort.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I only care about legitimate proof that I didn't make an honest attempt to send him my email address via PM here.

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And I only care about legitimate proof that you did send it.

Who claimed that they have proof that you didn't make an honest attempt to send it to redietz?

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I don't think that one could prove I made a legitimate attempt to send it. That's up for interpretation, since you can't read my mind. I could have poupously sent it to myself just to claim I made an honest attempt to send it. I think there is enough evidence that most people would believe that I made an honest attempt to send him my email, and truly assumed that I had. It's a moot point, I think he will confirm that I have since made sure he got my email and my phone number.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

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Please, do tell. I figured out very quickly that DI was mostly BS. I have some good stories to tell about DI. We bough a 100% real craps table, an excaxt copy of a craps table being used in a major strip casino. 2 or 3 people might be able to eek out a small advadnatge given 100% dedication with owning a legit copy of a craps table that's being used in a casino. But it's not worth the time and effort.

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I don't play craps, nor even pay much attention to the discussions. But my first question would be, is every craps table in every casino uniform or exactly the same? Made of the exact same materials? If not, I dont see an advantage to owning a "legit" craps table. Unless you are going to take your own table with you to the casino to play. :cool:

Again, I am not a craps guy and didn't even pay much attention to the DI discussions. But didn't Wong, later completely back track and back off his initial support of dice influencing and admit that it basically didn't work. Am I wrong in remembering something like that? :confused:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

perhaps it had something to do with

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your gross technical incompetence.

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I'm certainly not a master private message forum technician. It is among the last things I care to have an in-depth knowledge of. Meanwhile, I'm taking a break from clearing out blackberry bushes, leaving the ground, and creating a new path to the river for my wife and Dog on my tractor. I think I'm going to lose an A-30" belt as I've seen somthing smoking, smelled burned rubber, heard squalling, and seemingly lost some power.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I don't think that one could prove I made a legitimate attempt to send it. I could have poupously sent it to myself just to claim I made an honest attempt to send it. I think there is enough evidence that most people would believe that I made an honest attempt to send him my email

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Now you are just talking in circles.

One could not prove you made a legitimate attempt.

You could have sent it to yourself just to claim that you did.

There is evidence that you did make an honest attempt.

The evidence is that you sent it to yourself.

LOL...OK...got it.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I don't play craps, nor even pay much attention to the discussions. But my first question would be, is every craps table in every casino uniform or exactly the same? Made of the exact same materials? If not, I dont see an advantage to owning a "legit" craps table. Unless you are going to take your own table with you to the casino to play. :cool:

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KJ, the tables are NOT all the same, so unless a wannabe DI can duplicate a table exactly he'll never be able to have the same sort of results at home as at the casino.

I suspect the key thing is the surface, both the felt overlay and the underlay beneath it.

When DI became a thing I understand some casinos modified their tables underlay to become bouncier.

No, DI is not practical: you want to win, then figure how to palm and substitute dice, but yeah, it's a felony.

What is the big deal? So Axel made a mistake and sent the message to himself. So fucking what? It has been corrected. Why is everything with this coach belly some kind of gottch ya moment, and most of it about shit that absolutely just doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

And he has the nerve to open his trap about anyone else?

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UNKewlJ does have the nerve to go on and on about more nonsense after being caught in years of daily lying, and hemmed in on at least thirty-nine total lies where it's obvious he lied.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

At this point this fraud's claims aren't t even worth entering a discussion about.....RIP

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I don't play craps, nor even pay much attention to the discussions. But my first question would be, is every craps table in every casino uniform or exactly the same? Made of the exact same materials? If not, I dont see an advantage to owning a "legit" craps table. Unless you are going to take your own table with you to the casino to play. :cool:

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KJ, the tables are NOT all the same, so unless a wannabe DI can duplicate a table exactly he'll never be able to have the same sort of results at home as at the casino.

I suspect the key thing is the surface, both the felt overlay and the underlay beneath it.

When DI became a thing I understand some casinos modified their tables underlay to become bouncier.

No, DI is not practical: you want to win, then figure how to palm and substitute dice, but yeah, it's a felony.

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And does Wong still endorse or promote DI as a real thing or am I correct in thinking he back-tracked on that?

It's been awhile but IIRC Wong gave up on chasing the DI dream.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

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Please, do tell. I figured out very quickly that DI was mostly BS. I have some good stories to tell about DI. We bough a 100% real craps table, an excaxt copy of a craps table being used in a major strip casino. 2 or 3 people might be able to eek out a small advadnatge given 100% dedication with owning a legit copy of a craps table that's being used in a casino. But it's not worth the time and effort.

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I don't play craps, nor even pay much attention to the discussions. But my first question would be, is every craps table in every casino uniform or exactly the same? Made of the exact same materials? If not, I dont see an advantage to owning a "legit" craps table. Unless you are going to take your own table with you to the casino to play. :cool:

Again, I am not a craps guy and didn't even pay much attention to the DI discussions. But didn't Wong, later completely back track and back off his initial support of dice influencing and admit that it basically didn't work. Am I wrong in remembering something like that? :confused:

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A new strip casino had X number of craps tables built, but they ultimately only bought X amount from the builder, he had a few extras(logo and all), we purchoused one of the extra tables. It's been discussed previously. I sold my stake in the table and moved on very quickly. FYI, the Dominator would rent out the table for his classes. I had nothing to do with him/that, as I knew it was a con job regarding his students and his claims.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I don't think that one could prove I made a legitimate attempt to send it. I could have poupously sent it to myself just to claim I made an honest attempt to send it. I think there is enough evidence that most people would believe that I made an honest attempt to send him my email

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Now you are just talking in circles.

One could not prove you made a legitimate attempt.

You could have sent it to yourself just to claim that you did.

There is evidence that you did make an honest attempt.

The evidence is that you sent it to yourself.

LOL...OK...got it.

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How could someone prove what their intent was? I have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that I sent my email to a PM at the time I claim. Ask Dan to confirm or deny. I permit him to look into my account and the timeline and give his opinion.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

It's been awhile but IIRC Wong gave up on chasing the DI dream.

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Like I said, craps isn't my thing. I have never played. Not 1 dollar. But what surprised me about Wong and DI, was that EVERYTHING about the man was about the Mathematics of gambling. Getting an edge based on the mathematics. And that wasn't the case with the DI thing. It was surprising. I am sure I have told my Standford Wong story either here or at WoV before.

I met him at Westin. I lived just up the street at the Platinum (Koval/Flamingo) at the time and walked to somewhere on the strip most days, so I walked right past Westin. They didn't have much live blackjack to speak of (I think they had a table open on weekends but they weren't going to tolerate my action, so I never played). But they did have a good little cafe/restaurant that I liked and made a great burger, so I stopped in once a week.

So I walked past Wong playing the dealer's angel (was that the name?) blackjack game. So I sat down. Up until that point I didn't know the game was beatable, because I didn't know when the shuffle point was. But I figured if he was playing it, it was beatable. We struck up a conversation and he asked if I counted cards and told me that when they changed dealers was the shuffle point. I had thought maybe that was the case, but didn't know for sure. I did tell him my first name, but never told him that I was a member on his forum. I don't know why. Well....I guess I do know why....thats the way I am. :rolleyes:

A while later I saw him again playing again at Westin. He must have liked that set up. Or maybe it was just a close easy shot from where his condo was on the other side of the strip.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by MDawg

As Rob pointed out...a preponderance of evidence.

Add to that, an alleged 20 years card counting most of it allegedly in Vegas and yet not one AP of any ilk knows him or of him other than the few who outed him as a red to green small timer playing only as cover for male prostitution, notwithstanding his repeated claims (admittedly, conflicting claims) of having played on blackjack teams.

What has he been DOING all these years? Obviously not playing blackjack. Vegas is not that big a town. Not that many casinos really, not enough to hide in playing as much as UNKewlJ claims, for so many years.

By a posteriori reasoning, the male prostitution makes sense - meaning, since he's obviously lying about blackjack, then what has he been doing?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

I'm rather certain he has money from something he feels shame over.
Most likely a prostitute

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I suppose I can understand why a "Math Boy" like Wong was intrigued by DI, as the premise is that DI gives an advantage.

Of course one can never objectively quantify the advantage mathematically, and that fact, coupled to him and others not killing the casinos via Di probably soured him on the concept.

But in theory it holds together: if a shooter can actually control or influence the supposedly random outcome then they'd have an advantage against the casino.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by MDawg

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Originally Posted by MDawg

As Rob pointed out...a preponderance of evidence.

Add to that, an alleged 20 years card counting most of it allegedly in Vegas and yet not one AP of any ilk knows him or of him other than the few who outed him as a red to green small timer playing only as cover for male prostitution, notwithstanding his repeated claims (admittedly, conflicting claims) of having played on blackjack teams.

What has he been DOING all these years? Obviously not playing blackjack. Vegas is not that big a town. Not that many casinos really, not enough to hide in playing as much as UNKewlJ claims, for so many years.

By a posteriori reasoning, the male prostitution makes sense - meaning, since he's obviously lying about blackjack, then what has he been doing?

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Full Disclosure: I have again asked Dan Druff to do something about this Mdog person. If someone doesn't believe things I say....don't believe me...I really don't care, despite what these obsessed freaks think.

If Mdog has the need to troll me and others that publicly doubt his claims and story.. .fine. At least fine on this free speech forum.

BUT he should NOT be allowed to hijack every legitimate gambling discussion and thread with his obsessive bullshit.

Free speech or not, there comes a point when Dan Druff should make a call that somebody's ONLY agenda on this forum is to be as disruptive as possible. To make the forum experience as unpleasant for as many people as they can. these people are angry and bitter. Druff finally kicked blackhole to the curb for being such a person who's ONLY intent was to be disruptive. I think he should give consideration to doing the same with both coach belly and Mdog.

Dog doesn't even post his made up gambling stories and claims here anymore. ONLY trolls and attacks people. If Druff thinks there is some value to having Dog here, then at least limit his trolling to one or two threads. let him troll and attack to his hearts content and I wont even respond. Just limit it to one thread area...maybe the Dog pound.

Isn't that better than what we currently have were this guy wakes up every morning bumps half dozen thread only to troll, and then hijacks any legitimate discussion on top of it?

I have tried fighting back at the trolling. How about we try something else Dan Druff? Maybe move just a little bit back towards a gambling forum?

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

How could someone prove what their intent was?

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You could have cooperated with him and sent an email like he asked...several times.

But no, you're not capable of functioning in the "straight" world, your nature is to be difficult.

So you created a difficulty that now you are all twisted up about.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Send along your email to integritysports@aol.com. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

there's no need for me to email you my email; try using copy and paste.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Full Disclosure: I have again asked Dan Druff to do something about this Mdog person.

---

Dan Druff will do nothing, KJ...forget about it.

This is his own little private freak show, he lets the animals fight it out without sullying himself by getting involved.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...I prefer the wild west to civilization.

If he felt it was important he'd have dealt with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Full Disclosure: I have again asked Dan Druff to do something about this Mdog person.

---

Dan Druff will do nothing, KJ...forget about it.

This is his own little circus side show, he lets the animals fight it out without sullying himself by getting involved.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...I prefer the wild west to civilization.

---

I know you do V. and some others as well. But we can't even have a legitimate discussion about some gambling topic, like this thread, without it being hijacked eevery other post with the same old trolling bullshit.

Hoity Toity!

For someone who just received player records from yet another casino exec (always on a weekend, always after hours), you shore are in a bad mood. I'd think you'd be dancing like a manic dervish in the tunnels over your latest story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

kewlJ: just admit that you enjoy telling stories for attention on forums, and will try to stop doing this in the future.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

But I would book happily book the major sports action of anyone on this board.

---

This reads like an empty gesture, in light of the fact that you are turning tail within the same post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I don't intend to waste any more time with foolishness here...Bye.

---

---

I rarely agree with you but if this guy is legitimate in his offer and it was readily possible - he would have a pretty quick change of heart. If you understand EV and simply dont bet unless you have it - then the book will not win. 2 cases would occur in Kim's favor. No bets would occur because his lines are too sharp or the bettor runs bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterV

It's been awhile but IIRC Wong gave up on chasing the DI dream.

---

Like I said, craps isn't my thing. I have never played. Not 1 dollar. But what surprised me about Wong and DI, was that EVERYTHING about the man was about the Mathematics of gambling. Getting an edge based on the mathematics. And that wasn't the case with the DI thing. It was surprising. I am sure I have told my Standford Wong story either here or at WoV before.

I met him at Westin. I lived just up the street at the Platinum (Koval/Flamingo) at the time and walked to somewhere on the strip most days, so I walked right past Westin. They didn't have much live blackjack to speak of (I think they had a table open on weekends but they weren't going to tolerate my action, so I never played). But they did have a good little cafe/restaurant that I liked and made a great burger, so I stopped in once a week.

So I walked past Wong playing the dealer's angel (was that the name?) blackjack game. So I sat down. Up until that point I didn't know the game was beatable, because I didn't know when the shuffle point was. But I figured if he was playing it, it was beatable. We struck up a conversation and he asked if I counted cards and told me that when they changed dealers was the shuffle point. I had thought maybe that was the case, but didn't know for sure. I did tell him my first name, but never told him that I was a member on his forum. I don't know why. Well....I guess I do know why....thats the way I am. :rolleyes:

A while later I saw him again playing again at Westin. He must have liked that set up. Or maybe it was just a close easy shot from where his condo was on the other side of the strip.

---

Where is the picture of Stanford Wong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

You could have cooperated with him and sent an email like he asked...several times.

But no, you're not capable of functioning in the "straight" world, your nature is to be difficult.

So you created a difficulty that now you are all twisted up about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

there's no need for me to email you my email; try using copy and paste.

---

---

I sent him my email via PM. There is no reason for me to send an email via email. I would have to dig out an old computer, find my old password, then verify my old password via text or email, etc. I don't feel like fucking around with that until I have time to go to storage in the next few days when I'm going anyways. There is nothing wrong with him using a PM to get my email address. Im not sending an email directly to integritysports@aol.com for now. People use that shit for nefarios reasons(I mentioned that in the past to him). I'm not saying he would do that, but I'll take extra precautions.

Originally Posted by Kim Lee View Post
"But I would book happily book the major sports action of anyone on this board."


Can someone post the link to this? I would be willing to entertain this. I'm willing to entertain booking any bets from anyone, sharp betters or not, as long as I get the proper vig. For anyone I don't know well enough, I will not offer credit. I will require escrow or money up front.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

You could have cooperated with him and sent an email like he asked...several times.

But no, you're not capable of functioning in the "straight" world, your nature is to be difficult.

So you created a difficulty that now you are all twisted up about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

there's no need for me to email you my email; try using copy and paste.

---

---

I sent him my email via PM. There is no reason for me to send an email via email. I would have to dig out an old computer, find my old password, then verify my old password via text or email, etc. I don't feel like fucking around with that until I have time to go to storage in the next few days when I'm going anyways. There is nothing wrong with him using a PM to get my email address. Im not sending an email directly to integritysports@aol.com for now. People use that shit for nefarios reasons(I mentioned that in the past to him). I'm not saying he would do that, but I'll take extra precautions.

---

Integritysporsts @ AOL(dot) com. (done intentionally so as not to aid his spamming).

All I can say is AOL???? :D Again, does this Dietz fella know what year it is? What century it is?

And yes, I have always been suspicious that Mr Dietz wants everyone to submit any correspondence to his Tout email account. I mean it could be a question/comment that you could ask right in the public forum or PM/DM using the forum. But no, he wants you to email his TOUT account. I am sure there is something up with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The reason people call you a liar is because you have a habit of lying on forums. How is that hard to understand?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

You could have cooperated with him and sent an email like he asked...several times.

But no, you're not capable of functioning in the "straight" world, your nature is to be difficult.

So you created a difficulty that now you are all twisted up about.

---

I sent him my email via PM. There is no reason for me to send an email via email. I would have to dig out an old computer, find my old password, then verify my old password via text or email, etc. I don't feel like fucking around with that until I have time to go to storage in the next few days when I'm going anyways. There is nothing wrong with him using a PM to get my email address. Im not sending an email directly to integritysports@aol.com for now. People use that shit for nefarios reasons(I mentioned that in the past to him). I'm not saying he would do that, but I'll take extra precautions.

---

Integritysporsts @ AOL(dot) com. (done intentionally so as not to aid his spamming).

All I can say is AOL???? :D Again, does this Dietz fella know what year it is? What century it is?

And yes, I have always been suspicious that Mr Dietz wants everyone to submit any correspondence to his Tout email account. I mean it could be a question/comment that you could ask right in the public forum or PM/DM using the forum. But no, he wants you to email his TOUT account. I am sure there is something up with that.

---

A significant amount of personal information/location can be scraped from emails. Didn't he say his brother-in-law or someone close to him was a PI?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

A significant amount of personal information/location can be scraped from emails. Didn't he say his brother-in-law or someone close to him was a PI?

---

He did say that....about 1000 times. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Get help.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

You could have cooperated with him and sent an email like he asked...several times.

But no, you're not capable of functioning in the "straight" world, your nature is to be difficult.

So you created a difficulty that now you are all twisted up about.

---

I sent him my email via PM. There is no reason for me to send an email via email. I would have to dig out an old computer, find my old password, then verify my old password via text or email, etc. I don't feel like fucking around with that until I have time to go to storage in the next few days when I'm going anyways. There is nothing wrong with him using a PM to get my email address. Im not sending an email directly to integritysports@aol.com for now. People use that shit for nefarios reasons(I mentioned that in the past to him). I'm not saying he would do that, but I'll take extra precautions.

---

Integritysporsts @ AOL(dot) com. (done intentionally so as not to aid his spamming).

All I can say is AOL???? :D Again, does this Dietz fella know what year it is? What century it is?

And yes, I have always been suspicious that Mr Dietz wants everyone to submit any correspondence to his Tout email account. I mean it could be a question/comment that you could ask right in the public forum or PM/DM using the forum. But no, he wants you to email his TOUT account. I am sure there is something up with that.

---

I used to say the same thing about AOL accounts, but now I think it's cool. I still have one from the mid to late 90s. You would LOL at the name as it relates to casino 86ing/trespassing. for example, Axelwas86ed

Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

But I would book happily book the major sports action of anyone on this board.

---

So for example when I bet both sides of a game at +105 and +105, you'll take the -105 and -105?

That'll teach me a lesson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Full Disclosure: I have again asked Dan Druff to do something about this Mdog person.

---

Dan Druff will do nothing, KJ...forget about it.

This is his own little circus side show, he lets the animals fight it out without sullying himself by getting involved.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...I prefer the wild west to civilization.

---

I know you do V. and some others as well. But we can't even have a legitimate discussion about some gambling topic, like this thread, without it being hijacked eevery other post with the same old trolling bullshit.

---

When will an idiot like you learn that Dan and all the others who you came here for the purpose of expecting to hoodwink, have unanimously distanced themselves from all of your story-telling fabrications? Now we have Wong thrown into the mix.

But please keep the stories rolling. Lying is what you do best!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I have the proof.

---

How much will it cost me for you to post whatever proof you say that you have?

How about this?...after you post your proof, I will post proof that you sent that message to me.

---

Without even looking, I'm fairly positive I didn't send you a PM with my email address. I don't care what proof you claim to have or what game you are playing, I only care about legitimate proof that I didn't make an honest attempt to send him my email address via PM here. Dan can look into this, and I'll post whatever proof I have without any bets or costs to anyone. It's a dumb argument, as I admit I made an honest mistake and somehow replied to myself when attempting to send Red my email address.

---

Redietz PM inbox has always been full and wont take more messages.

I told him he needs to empty it. But he said he cant throw away the past messages to him because they are valuable archives. He said that publicly on this site so others should remember it.

I gave up on trying to PM him years ago because of it.

So its not your fault axel. Its ditz’ fault.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

How much will it cost me for you to post whatever proof you say that you have?

How about this?...after you post your proof, I will post proof that you sent that message to me.

---

Without even looking, I'm fairly positive I didn't send you a PM with my email address. I don't care what proof you claim to have or what game you are playing, I only care about legitimate proof that I didn't make an honest attempt to send him my email address via PM here. Dan can look into this, and I'll post whatever proof I have without any bets or costs to anyone. It's a dumb argument, as I admit I made an honest mistake and somehow replied to myself when attempting to send Red my email address.

---

Redietz PM inbox has always been full and wont take more messages.

I told him he needs to empty it. But he said he cant throw away the past messages to him because they are valuable archives. He said that publicly on this site so others should remember it.

I gave up on trying to PM him years ago because of it.

So its not your fault axel. Its ditz’ fault.

---

Ummmm, Axelwolf has PM'ed me multiple times in the last couple of days. And if my VCT inbox fills with fan mail, I have posted my email address half a dozen times in this forum in the last week. Plus I PM'ed it to Axelwolf.

So clearly it's my fault.

Let's just skip the silly PM thing and send emails like adults. Integritysports@aol.com should be used. This place is a braindead circus, and I'd like to bypass it as much as possible.

You know, I thought maybe my take on Kelly Criterion was faulty or naive or something, based on the declarative statements of some of this forum's "experts." It turns out Kelly Criterion is pretty much exactly as I said it was. What, because "Kim Lee" and KewlJ try to apply Kelly to everything and speak declaratively, they are expert? Well, the problem is those two are two sides of the same coin, and Kelly works fine when applied to coins.

Anybody wants to reach me, it's Integritysports@aol.com going forward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Without even looking, I'm fairly positive I didn't send you a PM with my email address. I don't care what proof you claim to have or what game you are playing, I only care about legitimate proof that I didn't make an honest attempt to send him my email address via PM here. Dan can look into this, and I'll post whatever proof I have without any bets or costs to anyone. It's a dumb argument, as I admit I made an honest mistake and somehow replied to myself when attempting to send Red my email address.

---

Redietz PM inbox has always been full and wont take more messages.

I told him he needs to empty it. But he said he cant throw away the past messages to him because they are valuable archives. He said that publicly on this site so others should remember it.

I gave up on trying to PM him years ago because of it.

So its not your fault axel. Its ditz’ fault.

---

Ummmm, Axelwolf has PM'ed me multiple times in the last couple of days. And if my box fills with fan mail (most of it from mickey), I have posted my email address half a dozen times in this forum in the last week. Plus I PM'ed it to Axelwolf.

So clearly it's my fault.

Let's just skip the silly PM thing and send emails like adults. Integritysports@aol.com should be used.

---

So you finally emptied it out after a dozen years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

When will an idiot like you learn that Dan and all the others who you came here for the purpose of expecting to hoodwink, have unanimously distanced themselves from all of your story-telling fabrications? Now we have Wong thrown into the mix.

But please keep the stories rolling. Lying is what you do best!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

a lot of the trolling aimed in your direction comes as a result of years of lying both here and on other forums. I think you should look inward regarding why you get trolled so much.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

A significant amount of personal information/location can be scraped from emails.

---

Scrape your drunk ass off the tractor and explain what and why you are hiding from Bob Dietz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

hundreds of people and the Gaming and Advantage Play Community know who I am and my real name. And that's not just including other Unknown People. I have played with, partnered with, competed with, hung out with, been to parties with, worked with, done business with, and shared information with many well-known people in the gaming Advantage play community.

---

It just dawned on me that Redietz despises Kelly as much as EV because his approach does not work at all for that. He just picks a few things where he feels the line is off after he does his handicapping.

He can't really estimate an EV with his methodology of hunches. SO it is also something worthy of his ridicule. As is applying Kelly to sports betting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I sent him my email via PM. There is no reason for me to send an email via email. I would have to dig out an old computer, find my old password, then verify my old password via text or email, etc. I don't feel like fucking around with that until I have time to go to storage in the next few days when I'm going anyways. There is nothing wrong with him using a PM to get my email address. Im not sending an email directly to integritysports@aol.com for now. People use that shit for nefarios reasons(I mentioned that in the past to him). I'm not saying he would do that, but I'll take extra precautions.

---

Integritysporsts @ AOL(dot) com. (done intentionally so as not to aid his spamming).

All I can say is AOL???? :D Again, does this Dietz fella know what year it is? What century it is?

And yes, I have always been suspicious that Mr Dietz wants everyone to submit any correspondence to his Tout email account. I mean it could be a question/comment that you could ask right in the public forum or PM/DM using the forum. But no, he wants you to email his TOUT account. I am sure there is something up with that.

---

A significant amount of personal information/location can be scraped from emails. Didn't he say his brother-in-law or someone close to him was a PI?

---

You change your email name. You could always send an email elsewhere. Just look at all the headers. I have no idea but if your real name is not on the account and isn't linked on the internet and it isn't leaking your IP then you're fine. Even having someone know your IP means very little. I sometimes get IP addresses that are 3 hours away when I use a hotspot for example. Some residential ips can kinda be narrowed down moreso. Whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

---

Please, do tell. ... We bough a 100% real craps table.

---

Was this table in FB's house?

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

---

per the link Wong has backed off his claim that craps can be beaten with dice influencing -

but I don't see how Kim Lee's fading of Wong's dice action would be advantageous - the HE is still there - maybe he just did it for fun - that would be my guess

"And finally, in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of “Beatable Casino Games” on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the “Craps” discussion page from his site, as well. In addition, a few months later, in October 2011, in an interview on Bob Dancer’s popular KLAV radio program, “Gambling With an Edge,” Wong admitted that for players “who want to get serious about making money in casinos, craps is not the game to play.” That pretty much says it all."


https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...lKZDMXMJRCnon3

.

Here's what the AI says about Kelly betting:

"In time, however, sports bettors and Wall Street traders realized the value of the formula as an investment management system that could help protect assets and maximize earnings. The Kelly Criterion (or simply "Kelly") is now widely recognized as the "truest" sports betting bankroll management strategy."

Bob Dietz' anti-kelly stance should be brought up in any interview.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

It just dawned on me that Redietz despises Kelly as much as EV because his approach does not work at all for that. He just picks a few things where he feels the line is off after he does his handicapping.

He can't really estimate an EV with his methodology of hunches. SO it is also something worthy of his ridicule. As is applying Kelly to sports betting.

---

Evidently, unlike some folks, I have read the definition and caveats regarding use of Kelly Criterion, all of which are available if you simply Google it. Although, if you read the definitions carefully, it is possible for God to apply Kelly Criterion to sports betting.

I did not know there were so many omniscient people in the "AP" world. I salute you. You should probably start your own religion. Wait...you have, now that I think about it.

I love this. I get to bring in social psychological research from left field because it's apropos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I have read the definition and caveats regarding use of Kelly Criterion, all of which are available if you simply Google it.

---

In other words, you never read Kelly's original paper.

To prove you at least Googled it, tell us the Kelly bet for a 56% handicapper laying -110 with a bankroll of $10k? Then what is his bankroll after winning 56 and losing 44 sequential Kelly bets? What is his bankroll after 40 seasons of this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I have read the definition and caveats regarding use of Kelly Criterion, all of which are available if you simply Google it.

---

In other words, you never read Kelly's original paper.

To prove you at least Googled it, tell us the Kelly bet for a 56% handicapper laying -110 with a bankroll of $10k? Then what is his bankroll after winning 56 and losing 44 sequential Kelly bets? What is his bankroll after 40 seasons of this?

---

None of this is relevant. There are only 56% handicappers past tense. And there are no 56% handicappers cross sports. I doubt there are 53% handicappers cross sports. So what are you asking? To presume that someone who has generated 56% ATS winners IN THE PAST IN A SPECIFIC SPORT will continue to do so ad infinitum?

These are not coin flips. The personnel regs for something like college football or college basketball can change radically from season to season. If anything underlines the inanity of presuming, it would be the current state of both major college sports, where the entire gestalt is radically different from even five years ago and requires completely different emphases and analyses. The leagues have changed memberships to such a degree, that presumption could get you killed. With the average head coach lasting less than four years at any institution, relying on even-relatively-recent emphases is silly. And co-ordinators, who in many instances actually run the ship, change even more frequently.

And, as you may suspect from reading McCusker or following other monitors, college football and college basketball have been (note the past tense) the most beatable sports. So good luck with the logic of applying Kelly Criterion to non-random events.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

---

per the link Wong has backed off his claim that craps can be beaten with dice influencing -

but I don't see how Kim Lee's fading of Wong's dice action would be advantageous - the HE is still there - maybe he just did it for fun - that would be my guess

"And finally, in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of “Beatable Casino Games” on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the “Craps” discussion page from his site, as well. In addition, a few months later, in October 2011, in an interview on Bob Dancer’s popular KLAV radio program, “Gambling With an Edge,” Wong admitted that for players “who want to get serious about making money in casinos, craps is not the game to play.” That pretty much says it all."


https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...lKZDMXMJRCnon3

.

---

But Alan M. always said DI was a legitimate method of profiting from gambling. And he's witnessed it as well as having had some success with it. An actual player!

Doesn't that supercede anything a guy like Wong comes up with, who won't lift a finger, print a word, or say a thing unless it benefits him commercially?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

I faded Stanford Wong's dice action, and would do it again.

---

per the link Wong has backed off his claim that craps can be beaten with dice influencing -

but I don't see how Kim Lee's fading of Wong's dice action would be advantageous - the HE is still there - maybe he just did it for fun - that would be my guess

"And finally, in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of “Beatable Casino Games” on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the “Craps” discussion page from his site, as well. In addition, a few months later, in October 2011, in an interview on Bob Dancer’s popular KLAV radio program, “Gambling With an Edge,” Wong admitted that for players “who want to get serious about making money in casinos, craps is not the game to play.” That pretty much says it all."


https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...lKZDMXMJRCnon3

.

---

But Alan M. always said DI was a legitimate method of profiting from gambling. And he's witnessed it as well as having had some success with it. An actual player!

Doesn't that supercede anything a guy like Wong comes up with, who won't lift a finger, print a word, or say a thing unless it benefits him commercially?

---

I don't consider Alan (r.i.p.) to have been an expert on gambling - I guess he was just speaking about his observations - observations are not proofs

in America, everything, even trivial things, are studied to death

so, in thinking about it - I would have to believe that if dice influencing were possible it would have been proven somehow and somewhere with thousands of rolls

academics love this kind of thing

and guess what - I found an academic study - see link

these PhDs built a machine they called "Lucky Lil" and calibrated it to throw the dice in a way that they believed might produce non random results

they tested both short rolls that did not hit the back wall and legal rolls that did hit the back wall

but alas - "Lucky Lil" failed to produce any results that were significantly different than random results

the is I believe because the action of the dice becomes chaotic once it hits the table and then even more so when it hits the back wall with the pyramids


https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/...5&context=grrj


.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I have read the definition and caveats regarding use of Kelly Criterion, all of which are available if you simply Google it.

---

In other words, you never read Kelly's original paper.

To prove you at least Googled it, tell us the Kelly bet for a 56% handicapper laying -110 with a bankroll of $10k? Then what is his bankroll after winning 56 and losing 44 sequential Kelly bets? What is his bankroll after 40 seasons of this?

---

None of this is relevant. There are only 56% handicappers past tense. And there are no 56% handicappers cross sports. I doubt there are 53% handicappers cross sports. So what are you asking? To presume that someone who has generated 56% ATS winners IN THE PAST IN A SPECIFIC SPORT will continue to do so ad infinitum?

These are not coin flips. The personnel regs for something like college football or college basketball can change radically from season to season. If anything underlines the inanity of presuming, it would be the current state of both major college sports, where the entire gestalt is radically different from even five years ago and requires completely different emphases and analyses. The leagues have changed memberships to such a degree, that presumption could get you killed. With the average head coach lasting less than four years at any institution, relying on even-relatively-recent emphases is silly. And co-ordinators, who in many instances actually run the ship, change even more frequently.

And, as you may suspect from reading McCusker or following other monitors, college football and college basketball have been (note the past tense) the most beatable sports. So good luck with the logic of applying Kelly Criterion to non-random events.

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You know, this is the old, somewhat banal observation. People gambling perceive, define, and yearn for more control than they actually have. If you go to the social-psychological experiments addressing this (I'm admittedly dated -- '70s, '80s, '90s publications), Americans almost always perceive more control than they have. It's classic. So let's take a guy who doesn't win at sports betting, and he's going to argue, for some reason, than using Kelly Criterion for a non-random series of betting events is the key to the kingdom. Have at it. It looks silly to me, but when you solve it to the point that you win, please let everyone know, and you can shout from the rooftops that Kelly Criterion was the key.

For those of us in reality, who specialize and win at specific sports, taking them one season at a time because, you know, shit changes (sometimes radically), this entire subject is a MacGuffin. College football seasons are their own individual things. Sometimes you solve them; occasionally you don't. There's no magic yellow brick road where if you walk a mile, you can see the next mile.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

To prove you at least Googled it, tell us the Kelly bet for a 56% handicapper laying -110 with a bankroll of $10k?

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None of this is relevant.

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I simply asked you to prove you understood Kelly by doing a simple calculation. Instead, you obfuscate because you don't understand.

VP was and Slots mentioned regarding Kelly previously in this thread, and I was thinking about it again. I don't think Kelly is best suited for VP and Slots AP and Slots, since you can't really scale up like you can in BJ and sports betting. With Slot and VP AP are generally dictated by what's available and what you know about at any given time. You could be playing a $100 denomination one day at a 2% Advantage and be playing a $1 denomination the next day with a 5% advantage. I guess one could use Kelly in certain close-hand situations to change up their strategy slightly.

I think figuring out your ROR on bigger plays would be way more useful than Kelly, given the reality of Slots and VP AP.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

But Alan M. always said DI was a legitimate method of profiting from gambling. And he's witnessed it as well as having had some success with it. An actual player!

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MisterV

It's been awhile but IIRC Wong gave up on chasing the DI dream.

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Like I said, craps isn't my thing. I have never played. Not 1 dollar. But what surprised me about Wong and DI, was that EVERYTHING about the man was about the Mathematics of gambling. Getting an edge based on the mathematics. And that wasn't the case with the DI thing. It was surprising. I am sure I have told my Standford Wong story either here or at WoV before.

I met him at Westin. I lived just up the street at the Platinum (Koval/Flamingo) at the time and walked to somewhere on the strip most days, so I walked right past Westin. They didn't have much live blackjack to speak of (I think they had a table open on weekends but they weren't going to tolerate my action, so I never played). But they did have a good little cafe/restaurant that I liked and made a great burger, so I stopped in once a week.

So I walked past Wong playing the dealer's angel (was that the name?) blackjack game. So I sat down. Up until that point I didn't know the game was beatable, because I didn't know when the shuffle point was. But I figured if he was playing it, it was beatable. We struck up a conversation and he asked if I counted cards and told me that when they changed dealers was the shuffle point. I had thought maybe that was the case, but didn't know for sure. I did tell him my first name, but never told him that I was a member on his forum. I don't know why. Well....I guess I do know why....thats the way I am. :rolleyes:

A while later I saw him again playing again at Westin. He must have liked that set up. Or maybe it was just a close easy shot from where his condo was on the other side of the strip.

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Where is the picture of Stanford Wong?

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Did Stanford put his oic out there to be recognized?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Where is the picture of Stanford Wong?

Did Stanford put his oic out there to be recognized?

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prolly he put it out there after he retired from playing




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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

But Alan M. always said DI was a legitimate method of profiting from gambling.

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I heard some APs considered grouping up to exploit DI, but then decided instead to form a "quitting when ahead" team.

It didn't last very long.

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

To prove you at least Googled it, tell us the Kelly bet for a 56% handicapper laying -110 with a bankroll of $10k?

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None of this is relevant.

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I simply asked you to prove you understood Kelly by doing a simple calculation. Instead, you obfuscate because you don't understand.

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There's been talk about Kim Lee being KJ or some nonsense. I haven't paid much attention to that aspect.

This post and some others certainly don't sound like KJ to me.

So why the strong feeling it's KJ? I don't know, but Kim Lee could be sharing his account with KJ, or it could be his brother, or someone else, I suppose.


Has/Does Kim Lee have an account at WOV?

If so, I would wonder if someone has access to information related to IP addresses, and there happened to be some correlation with past IP addresses between KL and KJ.
I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there as food for thought.

I'll let you guys figure it out, as I really don't care beyond this post.

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

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per the link Wong has backed off his claim that craps can be beaten with dice influencing -

but I don't see how Kim Lee's fading of Wong's dice action would be advantageous - the HE is still there - maybe he just did it for fun - that would be my guess

"And finally, in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of “Beatable Casino Games” on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the “Craps” discussion page from his site, as well. In addition, a few months later, in October 2011, in an interview on Bob Dancer’s popular KLAV radio program, “Gambling With an Edge,” Wong admitted that for players “who want to get serious about making money in casinos, craps is not the game to play.” That pretty much says it all."


https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...lKZDMXMJRCnon3

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But Alan M. always said DI was a legitimate method of profiting from gambling. And he's witnessed it as well as having had some success with it. An actual player!

Doesn't that supercede anything a guy like Wong comes up with, who won't lift a finger, print a word, or say a thing unless it benefits him commercially?

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I don't consider Alan (r.i.p.) to have been an expert on gambling - I guess he was just speaking about his observations - observations are not proofs

in America, everything, even trivial things, are studied to death

so, in thinking about it - I would have to believe that if dice influencing were possible it would have been proven somehow and somewhere with thousands of rolls

academics love this kind of thing

and guess what - I found an academic study - see link

these PhDs built a machine they called "Lucky Lil" and calibrated it to throw the dice in a way that they believed might produce non random results

they tested both short rolls that did not hit the back wall and legal rolls that did hit the back wall

but alas - "Lucky Lil" failed to produce any results that were significantly different than random results

the is I believe because the action of the dice becomes chaotic once it hits the table and then even more so when it hits the back wall with the pyramids


https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/...5&context=grrj


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OMG!!!!! STOP THE DI TALK!!!!!! It's been discussed ad nauseam. If it's possible, it's not worth it, and even if it were only one in a billion people, maybe can do it.